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  1. #891
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notalone View Post
    Sorry to hear your news @Bubbamagic. Take time to process the disappointment and when you're ready, think about your next steps. We didn't get our BFP on our first attempt, we did on our second though. We were very disappointed to say the least. But although DE improves your chances, it's not a silver bullet solution. .I took 6.5 months to go back for my second attempt In between cycles, I had fibroids removed, a hysteroscopy and I consulted an immune specialist (DrM) and also a haematologist. I had one intralipid treatment before transfer but I did not do acupuncture. The immune specialist was to test for the list of issues @Phia published earlier and the haematologist was for a second opinion. If you have seen someone already regarding these, it may be worthwhile seeking a second opinion or even revisiting your dr to tweak any protocol you are on. Hang in there though, it's an emotional journey but there are so many success stories that have given us all hope along the way. Xx
    Re the immune specialist, what did they test for? I’m starting to look into NKC although my FS in Australia doesn’t believe in it!

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  3. #892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peninsula Girl View Post
    I’m so sorry Bubbamagic, it’s just so heartbreaking. We’re all here for you and understand how hard it is when you put everything into the trip to Athens. I really hope your next transfer is the one.

    I’m not sure about timing for FET following bfn, but if I were you I would take enough time to ensure there’s no other issues that could have contributed to the bfn. Eg have you had immune testing? I’m sorry I don’t know if I’ve seen your history. It’s definitely worth searching this forum for the list @Phia had previously posted about things to be tested for and to think about ore DE. Apologies if you have already looked into all of this.

    Re acupuncture, I had it weekly in the lead up to DE. I also arranged to see a beautiful acupuncturist named Anastasia in Athens who came to my clinic and did a acupuncture and shiatsu treatment immediately before transfer, immediately after, then weekly following. This is also what I did at home for ivf transfers. It makes me feel great and I’m a big believer in increasing blood flow to the uterus, I think this is the main focus of it before/after transfer. I can give you Anastasia’s details of helpful, but I’m not sure whether she is allowed to go to Embryolabd, I went to a different clinic. So you might have to go to her rooms instead if you’re keen.

    Take care and be kind to yourself xx
    I would greatly appreciate if you could give me Anastasia’s details. I will try anything at this stage!
    Re Immune specialist, do they look into NKC? I’ve done research on NKC before but my FS in Australia doesn’t believe in it!
    I’m so greatful for all the support on here through this emotional ride xx

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  5. #893
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    Definitely put newlife on your list, it’s having really great results and the dr seems very caring also.
    Also agree with @Kalina regarding success rates, many clinics quite 70-80% success rate but they fail to tell you that that success rate is for 3 transfers. If I could get a fake passport I’d go there hahaha
    Last edited by stacey10; 30-01-2019 at 10:14.

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  7. #894
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    Thanks for the helpful info! Yes 13 rounds with nothing to show is ridiculous. We have been trying 12 years. We did 2 rounds private, had no $ left and had to wait a few years til a bulk billing clinic opened. We had to stick with them through a million failed cycles as it was that or we give up. Being a basic clinic they had no knowledge of nkc or DQ Alpha, so we were never tested. Our finances have changed so went private again, got diagnosed with DQ Alpha match, alloimmune implantation dysfunction and found all along we needed 2 donors.

    With the gene match and high nkc I need a couple months of immune treatment and intralipids before I go....how do I access that here if we went directly to a clinic?

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  9. #895
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalina View Post
    Ladies researching Greek clinics you may or may not wish to add New Life in Thessaloniki to your list of clinics to look into. I haven't used them, but they seem to have a very solid record and are probably who I would have gone with had we gone back to Greece.

    Eggdonationfriends.com has some good info, you can select by country and off you go.

    For those who like stats and having as much info as possible, I'd suggest the following:

    - Make sure they are clear on how they measure success rates, is it a positive pregnancy test, a clinical pregnancy (heartbeat on US) or live birth. Few will have reliable live birth stats because some ladies don't report back on fire the pregnancy progressed.

    - If quoted success rates seem too good to be true, be careful. Much of it relies on self reporting.

    - Make sure you know what percentage of the transfers they use to calculate success rates are singles and doubles. If a clinic does mostly single transfers then a comparable success rate is more impressive than if most of those transfers are doubles.

    - Ask exactly how many DE cycles they do per year. You can't read too much into success rates for a clinic which does a small number. A clinic which does many hundreds per year and still has good success rates will have more reliable stats. Etc.

    - Make sure they give you info on their FET single and double success rates, these can be different from fresh transfers. Also ask what their embryo thaw survival rate is. This last number will tell you something about the quality of their lab. I'd also look into how experienced their embryologists are - their skills and experience are arguably most important.

    - Beware of hidden costs and make sure you know exactly what is included in the price. Many clinics (all this pertains to every country btw, not only Greece) will give you a quote....then you'll find out that they need a more money for this, that and the other.

    I'm sure there's more but I'm nearly at the front of the coffee line....
    Good info, lots to consider thanks. How do you find all this out? Do you email the clinic and hope they provide it, or do you have a Skype consult with the dr first?

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  11. #896
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbamagic View Post
    I would greatly appreciate if you could give me Anastasia’s details. I will try anything at this stage!
    Re Immune specialist, do they look into NKC? I’ve done research on NKC before but my FS in Australia doesn’t believe in it!
    I’m so greatful for all the support on here through this emotional ride xx
    Welcome @Bubbamagic and sorry for your BFN. It is disheartening when this happens but rest assured it is very common. Most get their BFP within 3 transfers.
    Re immune issues- there are so many issues you could have, see @Phias list. It is definately worthwhile getting tested for everything. It costs a few hundred dollars and takes a couple of weeks for results but can save you thousands of $ and months/years of heartache. Dr Matthias in Sydney is the most popular specialist if you are on that side of the country. He does phone consultations and will send you for a heap of blood tests.

    It took me 5 DE transfers to get my son. Unfortunately I did not find this forum when I started out with DE so I had to leArn the hard way.
    I had 1 chemical 2bfn’s 1 miscarriage and 1 livebirth from my 5 transferes. I found out I had immune issues after my 3rd transfer which resulted in a miscarriage. I had always been told it was my eggs that were the problem but it turns out that it was more than just that!
    Goodluck

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  13. #897
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peninsula Girl View Post
    I’m so sorry Bubbamagic, it’s just so heartbreaking. We’re all here for you and understand how hard it is when you put everything into the trip to Athens. I really hope your next transfer is the one.

    I’m not sure about timing for FET following bfn, but if I were you I would take enough time to ensure there’s no other issues that could have contributed to the bfn. Eg have you had immune testing? I’m sorry I don’t know if I’ve seen your history. It’s definitely worth searching this forum for the list @Phia had previously posted about things to be tested for and to think about ore DE. Apologies if you have already looked into all of this.

    Re acupuncture, I had it weekly in the lead up to DE. I also arranged to see a beautiful acupuncturist named Anastasia in Athens who came to my clinic and did a acupuncture and shiatsu treatment immediately before transfer, immediately after, then weekly following. This is also what I did at home for ivf transfers. It makes me feel great and I’m a big believer in increasing blood flow to the uterus, I think this is the main focus of it before/after transfer. I can give you Anastasia’s details of helpful, but I’m not sure whether she is allowed to go to Embryolabd, I went to a different clinic. So you might have to go to her rooms instead if you’re keen.

    Take care and be kind to yourself xx
    I would greatly appreciate if you could give me Anastasia’s details. I will try anything at this stage!
    Re Immune specialist, do they look into NKC? I’ve done research on NKC before but my FS in Australia doesn’t believe in it!
    I’m so greatful for all the support on here through this emotional ride xx

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  15. #898
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    Quote Originally Posted by purpleowl View Post
    Hi ladies, new here but certainly not new to ivf. I posted this separately but it seems this is the place to be for all things DE in Greece. Urgently seeking as much info as possible on Genesis Athens.

    We’ve done 13 rounds including FETs, no bfps. After switching to Dr NL he has found we have a DQ Alpha match, plus high nkc. Add that to a bunch of other conditions (endo, PCO, all male factors), and long story short we need an egg donor, and found out today we need sperm too.

    Dr NL has referred us to Dr Pantos at Genesis Athens for a donor. The idea is overwhelming, I’ve no idea where to start asking the 1000 questions I have. Seems to be hard to find info on Genesis, it’s scattered through these threads.

    Anyone who has used them or has recommendations, I’m all ears please. Opinions range from “can’t recommend them highly enough” to “they’re slow, poor communication” etc. Many don’t seem concerned and say “they’re always running late and change things a lot, but ultimately who cares if you get your take home baby from it.”

    Are the stats for Greek clinics available anywhere? What are the success rates?

    Also who refers to Embryoland? Is it Dr M? Does he have a long waiting list for Skype? And how does he give pre-DE intralipids to interstate patients? Have heard so much good about Dr NK at Embryoland. Are they much more expensive than Genesis? (quoted $6500 euros plus flights).

    Sorry for the 20 questions, I am just so relieved to be talking with understanding people who’ve been through this. There are some gorgeous babies being made here!!

    Thanks
    Welcome @purpleowl glad you made it here!

    Firstly I would never use a clinic that does not have ultrasound guided transfers so that would take genesis off the list for me!

    You do not need a referral for any overseas clinics, just contact the clinic or co ordinatpr directly and go from there. It is very quick and easy to go to Greece for DE and sperm, there are no waiting lists.
    There are many great clinics as pointed out by other ladies the most popular being Iakentro, Embryoland, embryolab and new life the last 2 are in Thessaloniki.
    You could also speak to Ruth Pellows @
    Ivftreatmentabroad.com. (She has a website). I used her as was recommended by another lady in this forum. She is a registered nurse who deals with a few clinics in Greece. She is English and lives in Athens and co ordinates the whole thing for you. So you just deal with her. I can highly recommend her and there is no cost for her service (she gets paid by the clinics) and no obligation to use her. Definately worth talking/emailing.
    The clinic I used cost €5500 and FET were €1500. Don’t forget to get the FET cost as it can be expensive at some clinics and you never know if you are going to need it or not. This included freezing extra embryos up to 10 years.
    If you are going full donor (egg and sperm) you could do a freeze all cycle and then travel for transfer at your convenience.
    I did this my 2-5 transfers and much preferred it (my dh left frozen sperm at my first transfer).
    13 ivf cycles is a lot! Can I ask if you have any other issues? Have you had any BFP/miscarriages etc? Just trying to work out what is going on with you so we can steer you in the right direction. I was always told it was my old eggs but turned out I had other issues that no one had picked up in 10 years.

    Ask as many questions as you like, the ladies on this forum are such a wealth of information without them many of us would never get out take home baby I am sure of that.

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  17. #899
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moc24 View Post
    Welcome @purpleowl glad you made it here!

    You could also speak to Ruth Pellows @
    Ivftreatmentabroad.com. (She has a website). I used her as was recommended by another lady in this forum. She is a registered nurse who deals with a few clinics in Greece. She is English and lives in Athens and co ordinates the whole thing for you. So you just deal with her. I can highly recommend her and there is no cost for her service (she gets paid by the clinics) and no obligation to use her. Definately worth talking/emailing.
    The clinic I used cost €5500 and FET were €1500. Don’t forget to get the FET cost as it can be expensive at some clinics and you never know if you are going to need it or not. This included freezing extra embryos up to 10 years.

    I did this my 2-5 transfers and much preferred it (my dh left frozen sperm at my first transfer).
    13 ivf cycles is a lot! Can I ask if you have any other issues? Have you had any BFP/miscarriages etc? Just trying to work out what is going on with you so we can steer you in the right direction. I was always told it was my old eggs but turned out I had other issues that no one had picked up in 10 years.
    .
    Our diagnosis list is long. We have endometriosis, polycystic ovaries (but not the syndrome), sub-septate uterus (surgically ressected twice so there's 1/4 left), MTHFR heterozgous A1298C, prolapsed uterus/vaginal wall, severe male factor (count, morphology, motility etc), matching DQ Alpha gene 01:01, and high nkcs so I have alloimmune implantation dysfunction. I am immune to my partner's sperm and embryos. We've been trying 12 years, no pregnancies together. 6 or 8 failed transfers and i think 7 full stim cycles. I have a 15 year old from a previous relationship.

    Oh I forgot to add that I take Domperidone for a gastric condition, which speeds up intestinal motility. The side effect is that it's raised my prolactin, and I now lactate and don't have periods. I have to stay on it though or I get very sick. Dr has suggested Dostinex to combat the prolactin levels. I don't get normal periods now so that has to be addressed before going.

    Thank you for that! Definitely don't want to go through a clinic that doesn't use ultrasound, as I've had that several times with our bulk billing clinic here and was very unhappy with it. I have a uterine septum, so they need to be able to see where they're depositing the embryo.

    I have just emailed Ruth to find out some info on where to start, and told her about us.
    It sounds like the prices for the clinic Dr NL wants to refer us to are inflated, especially with the unnecessary $1000 referral fee.

    Ladies who've required intralipids before treatment abroad, how did you access this if you went directly through the Greek clinic? I need something like 8 weeks treatment before I go. I think Dr NL said dexamethasone, clexane, etc. I've done Bondi protocol before but never as far as intralipids.
    Last edited by purpleowl; 30-01-2019 at 13:33.

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  19. #900
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbamagic View Post
    I would greatly appreciate if you could give me Anastasia’s details. I will try anything at this stage!
    Re Immune specialist, do they look into NKC? I’ve done research on NKC before but my FS in Australia doesn’t believe in it!
    I’m so greatful for all the support on here through this emotional ride xx
    Definitely worth a try @Bubbamagic. Anastasia can be contacted via anastapol@gmail.com.

    I was also seeing a fs who didn’t believe in nkc. I switched to Dr NL who tested for it and it was positive, plus a whole lot of other immune issues. I personally believe it plays a big role. I also consulted with Dr M via phone and worked with both Dr NL and Dr M, plus my Athens clinic called Iakentro were very clued up on immune issues and I did several intralipid treatments while there.

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