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  1. #1
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    Default Opinions about basic income?

    I’m just really curious to know what others think about the idea of universal basic income.


    If you haven’t heard about it before, it’s the idea of a government paying everyone an income to cover basic needs, regardless of your employment status. So wealthy and poor citizens, employed and unemployed citizens alike, receive the same basic living wage. There are all sorts of arguments for and against.


    I’ve been thinking about it a lot because it’s being trialled here in Helsinki where I live (but I’m not part of the trial), and as I work as a contractor and am now entering motherhood, I think a basic income would be such a godsend; allowing me to take work when possible but keep food on the table when I can’t work, or when I’m taking time to build different skills. It would cut out all that rigamarole of making complicated applications and updating information to receive benefits (or to find out that I can’t receive benefits) and take away the stress of wondering if I will have a safety net in my future. It just seems like it would be of particular benefit to caregivers.


    There’s a good podcast about the trial here that talks about some pros and cons.


    Would it work for you do you think? Is it a crazy idea?

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    I read about the trial and am keen to follow its progress. I think it's a fabulous idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OSmum2017 View Post
    Would it work for you do you think? Is it a crazy idea?
    No I don't think it is a crazy idea.

    Off the top of my head, on the plus side:
    1. Would mean huge $ savings by getting rid of the Centrelink fraud department.
    2. There will always be a certain percentage of people unable or unwilling to work in paid employment so a living wage just accepts this and doesn't condemn - thus removing the stigma.
    3. Would make it easier for women in abusive relationships to just leave. Due to a quirk in the Centrelink rules, if I had have left my exh I would have failed the asset test (we owned our house outright) and not have been entitled to any Centrelink assistance. Him leaving me in the family home meant I was entitled. A living wage would eliminate this barrier to leaving.
    4. It would make harder for an abusive man to financially control a woman as she has access to her own money.
    5. Means that single parents will not be punished when their youngest child turns 8 and they are no longer eligible for single parent pension and need to go onto Newstart if they aren't earning enough money.
    6. Gives the elderly (without other investments) the means to live in retirement without the worry of poverty.
    7. The disabled would benefit and would not have to jump through hoops to prove they are unable to work.
    8. Newstart in this country is a joke and creates poverty - eg unemployed people can find themselves in the position of being unable to attend job interviews because they cannot afford transport of appropriate clothing.
    9 . Homeless will have access to money.
    10. Could potentially through a lifeline to those looking at risky options to make money to live eg prostitution, drug dealer etc.
    11. Certain LNP and One Nation politicians would drop dead on the spot of a heart attack if it was made a reality in Australia.
    12. Would allow mums to stay home with their babies and not rush back to work for financial reasons.

    The cons:
    1. Higher taxes - but getting rid of Centrelink would soften the blow.
    2. Australians in general are too conservative to accept this option - too many successive liberal governments have sold the story of those on Centrelink benefits being a drain on society and single parents, the disabled, and unemployed are bludgers and enemy of the tax payer.


    ETA - I also think it is unlikely everyone would quit their jobs tomorrow and just live off the government wage - basic human greed and competitiveness would ensure this would never happen.

    Oh, I just thought of one more benefit - drop kick dads who wanted to avoid child support obligations wouldn't be able to claim they had no income.
    Last edited by SSecret Squirrel; 26-09-2017 at 18:12.

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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSecret Squirrel View Post
    No I don't think it is a crazy idea.

    Off the top of my head, on the plus side:
    1. Would mean huge $ savings by getting rid of the Centrelink fraud department.
    2. There will always be a certain percentage of people unable or unwilling to work in paid employment so a living wage just accepts this and doesn't condemn - thus removing the stigma.
    3. Would make it easier for women in abusive relationships to just leave. Due to a quirk in the Centrelink rules, if I had have left my exh I would have failed the asset test (we owned our house outright) and not have been entitled to any Centrelink assistance. Him leaving me in the family home meant I was entitled. A living wage would eliminate this barrier to leaving.
    4. It would make harder for an abusive man to financially control a woman as she has access to her own money.
    5. Means that single parents will not be punished when their youngest child turns 8 and they are no longer eligible for single parent pension and need to go onto Newstart if they aren't earning enough money.
    6. Gives the elderly (without other investments) the means to live in retirement without the worry of poverty.
    7. The disabled would benefit and would not have to jump through hoops to prove they are unable to work.
    8. Newstart in this country is a joke and creates poverty - eg unemployed people can find themselves in the position of being unable to attend job interviews because they cannot afford transport of appropriate clothing.
    9 . Homeless will have access to money.
    10. Could potentially through a lifeline to those looking at risky options to make money to live eg prostitution, drug dealer etc.
    11. Certain LNP and One Nation politicians would drop dead on the spot of a heart attack if it was made a reality in Australia.
    12. Would allow mums to stay home with their babies and not rush back to work for financial reasons.

    The cons:
    1. Higher taxes - but getting rid of Centrelink would soften the blow.
    2. Australians in general are too conservative to accept this option - too many successive liberal governments have sold the story of those on Centrelink benefits being a drain on society and single parents, the disabled, and unemployed are bludgers and enemy of the tax payer.


    ETA - I also think it is unlikely everyone would quit their jobs tomorrow and just live off the government wage - basic human greed and competitiveness would ensure this would never happen.

    Oh, I just thought of one more benefit - drop kick dads who wanted to avoid child support obligations wouldn't be able to claim they had no income.
    Yes yes and yes. And one more yes for good measure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSecret Squirrel View Post
    3. Would make it easier for women in abusive relationships to just leave. Due to a quirk in the Centrelink rules, if I had have left my exh I would have failed the asset test (we owned our house outright) and not have been entitled to any Centrelink assistance. Him leaving me in the family home meant I was entitled. A living wage would eliminate this barrier to leaving.
    4. It would make harder for an abusive man to financially control a woman as she has access to her own money.
    These two points had not occurred to me and jumped out in particular. I would be SO in support of a system that allowed this kind of emergency escape route.

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    Totally think this should exist.

    So much money is spent on emergency support rather than preventative support, and it's nowhere near as effective.

    I work with kids in emergency state care. There is SO little in the way of genuine support to prevent them from being in such dire need. A basic income would be one step towards ensuring that everyone in our community can live a comfortable life.

    I imagine that the public sentiment would be: "but the blusters! They don't deserve it!". I despise the fact that, in a country as wealthy as ours, the attitude can exist that people 'deserve' to suffer or to starve, whatever their background or choices.

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    I don't know much about it so can't give an opinion but if truly universal (as opposed to a small trial) would it do what it's meant to do or would the cost of everything just rise? E.g will housing costs increase, will daily living costs increase and then with increased taxes will that just take away the increased monetary benefit for most people?

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    Default Opinions about basic income?

    I recently listened to a different podcast about it. It intrigues me and I would support it. I also like the idea of everyone having access to money - and not being completely dependent on their partners.

    http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs...regman/8883962
    Last edited by CookingMonster; 28-09-2017 at 19:55.

  14. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabellabean View Post
    I don't know much about it so can't give an opinion but if truly universal (as opposed to a small trial) would it do what it's meant to do or would the cost of everything just rise? E.g will housing costs increase, will daily living costs increase and then with increased taxes will that just take away the increased monetary benefit for most people?
    Yeah, I've been wondering the same. I haven't heard this be addressed.

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    For it to work well, I suspect wages would need to be dropped by the basic income amount. I don't know how it's being addressed in trials though.


 

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