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  1. #11
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    Also would like to ask if your go has done a full blood count of you, as being deficient in b12, b vitamins and iron can all attribute towards depression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stacey10 View Post
    Also would like to ask if your go has done a full blood count of you, as being deficient in b12, b vitamins and iron can all attribute towards depression.
    Yes have done all that, all normal, thanks

  3. #13
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    Default PND/bonding issues

    Hi @Petulia, yes my DE twins turned one last week and yes I had severe PND. Feel free to pm me if you like. I felt I couldn't bear the thought of being stuck with these little burdens for years and just wanted other people to take care of them. I would happily have handed them back if I'd had the option and I thought I'd made the biggest mistake of my life. I couldn't believe how much money we wasted to put myself in that position. Honestly though the one thing that you can hand onto - when those drugs kick in it all changes. It was still 'work' and it still took me ages to bond but at least I felt like myself again. When they start interacting with you it becomes easier to love them. Even at six months I didn't feel that all consuming love that other people seem to have, but I put that down to the type of person I am, not that they are DE. Honestly that doesn't make one speck of difference. Yes I thought maybe if I could see some of me in them I'd feel different but I doubt it now. It was certainly an eye opening experience for me. I never knew depression could be that bad. No light at the end of the tunnel. Literally. I'm still on the meds now and I can tell you they are like a miracle !!
    Last edited by JulieMalooley; 29-05-2017 at 09:16.

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    Default PND/bonding issues

    Took 2-3 weeks btw for me to start feeling normal on the meds and to be able to go back home. Family looked after us for about 5 weeks during this period. I think they believed I may do 'something' but I wouldn't have.

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    Petulia  (29-05-2017)

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    And the other thing that helped keep me sane was a pretty rigid routine. Even now they sleep for 12 uninterrupted hours at night and have been like that since 6 months old.

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  9. #16
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    Default PND/bonding issues

    People kept saying the same things to me too - yes its hard but it gets easier 'soon'. As soon as they can burp themselves its easier (true). As soon as they can sit up it gets easier (true too). As soon as they can xyz its easier (all true). None of it makes you feel better at the time and it just makes you wish their lives away and for these things to goddam hurry up and happen. I didn't give a **** that it would get easier 'soon' and those comments all made me feel worse. I had people telling me their babies slept through the night at 6 weeks old ffs. If your night is only 5 hours long perhaps that's true but WHEN will it happen for ME !! If you can't tell me good news then shut the hell up people.

    My PND kicked in around 6 weeks old - one day after DP went back to work. I spent 80% of the pregnancy saying I wasn't looking forward to twins. Everyone kept telling me how lucky we were. And a boy and a girl to boot. Yay for us. Not. I felt like punching the next person who said it. When we had them I then kept saying I was dreading DP going back to work. And boy oh boy was I sh1tting myself about that. The day after he went back I just started crying. I couldnt deal with them. Didn't want to get up at night. Hated washing bottles and making formula. Couldn't drag myself out of bed but made myself somehow. Didnt know how to stop them crying. Stressed that the other one would get woken. My SIL took one overnight at around 5 weeks old and the next morning the other one cried inconsolably and I had no idea how to stop her. I dropped her off with my SIL too and collapsed in a blubbering mess as I tried to leave her house feeling a complete failure that I was so relieve to be getting rid of them. I went home and got into bed with no intention of getting out for days if I could get away with it. I think that was the final straw and my family kicked into action organising baby sleep clinics, mental health nurse visits, dr appointments etc - all things I wasn't capable of doing. I couldn't even bring myself to make ONE of those phone calls for myself. Looking back they were obviously crapping themselves about me and my DP had no clue on what to do. He relied heavily on them too during this whole mess. Later that day we moved in with my brother and SIL and she did all the night feeds for a fair while and wore herself into the ground. And I let her. She has two small kids too btw. I could hear her feeding my bubs at 4-5 am and would not get up to help. I'd hear them bathing etc and wouldn't get out of bed to help. I just didn't want anything to do with them. I didn't hate them but I wanted nothing to do with them. I got a bit of a wake up when my older sister rang my SIL one day while I was standing nearby and overheard my sister saying 'more importantly - how are YOU holding up'. My younger sister told me I was wearing my SIL down and even though I wasn't capable of much, I forced myself to start doing the night feeds and hated every second of it. My sleep was more important to me. When the hell would they sleep through like everyone kept saying they would !!!
    The mental health nurse got me on meds immediately she saw me and then I started counting down the days. I couldnt even go back into my own home without feeling a black cloud of doom descend on me. After two weeks I felt much better then at 3 weeks I felt better than ever. Still didn't love those babies though and didn't look forward to caring for them on my own but I certainly felt more capable. I still don't understand how mothers can have 'immediate' love for their unborn babies. We don't even know these little people. They are strangers. And more importantly - will they look anything like either of us ?? Well, I can tell you that yes they will look like you. Epigenetics are absolutely amazing and @emski72 posted a picture once of 4 donated embies - same genetic parents for all 4 - who were transferred into two different women and both sets of twins looked nothing like the other set but they looked like the respective carrying mothers. It blew my mind. One of ours is a dead ringer for Daddy and the other looks just like all the kids in my family and supposed like me !! As I said earlier, they couldn't feel more like my babies - DE or not, I believe I would still feel the same.
    Now, at 12 months old - I'm working from home and have an au pair who cares for them upstairs during the day. (An au pair costs onnly $250 per week btw if you have a spare bedroom). At the end of the day and even during the day I find reasons to go upstairs for a cuddle. They are just so squeezable and I actually miss them. Keep in mind that I can't say I truly loved them until maybe they were 6 months old ish.. ? Even now, I'm not sure I love them anywhere near as much as other mothers do but its getting stronger and stronger all the time. It will grow on you too, there's no two ways about it. Let me bombard you with advice that you've probably already heard but these things kept me sane and make life easier now.

    Routine - I started following the save our sleep routine and adjusted it a bit as needed. 4 hourly feeds. I gradually started letting them wake on their own through the night (after the 11pm feed) and it got longer and longer apart until they made it through to 6am ish. Now we are 7pm to 7am. I hear them playing sometimes early in the am but they never cry. They know the routine and they know at 7 on the dot I will come in and get them and they get fed immediately.

    Crying - I've been lucky that we got really good babies but I read somewhere once that if they are crying, listen to the type of cry - if its a complaining cry (intermittent), leave them go for 5 minutes. Time it. Then go in. If its a distress cry, go immediately. During the night on the rare occasion we hear a cry, we wait a couple of minutes and it usually stops with no intervention. Probably a bad dream about the other one scratching/gouging/pulling their hair I reckon because that's just starting now

    Noise - we have a very echoey and noisy house with timber floors. We 'try' to be quiet but its impossible and the babies just get used to it. They are only noise sensitive if they are about to wake up anyway. Let them get used to noise otherwise you'll spend your life tiptoeing.

    Feeding - I can't recommend bottle feeding strongly enough. If they are getting enough food to fill them - they can start sleeping through the night. I'm not sure if you are breast or bottle or having feeding issues, but fill them with milk and get them eating as much as you can get into them at 6 months old and that's when mine started getting through the night. Seriously it CAN happen and then you can have a more normalish life. Also, I have a twincredible that I still give them their bottles in now. Talk about a lifesaver. I throw the bottles in their gob and can wash dishes etc while they watch cartoons.

    Burping - gad that was a pain in the butt ! Christ almight it was great when I could stop burping them !!! Why do they take so goddam long to burp !!!! To make our life hell, thats why. Because we have so much spare time, why not take up more of it.

    Separating them into their own rooms - Best thing I EVER did. It stopped me stressing about one waking the other and running in there as soon as someone cried. We had to move into a bigger house to do this but on the plus side we could then have room for an au pair. Cheapest child care ever.

    Getting back to work. I started working 1-2 days from home and now I'm lucky enough to be allowed to work 5 days from home. I started working when they were about 12 weeks old to keep myself sane and so I didn't just think baby/bottles/formula/washing day in day out. Adult stuff instead of baby, baby, baby, baby allllllll the time.

    Getting the au pair. The extra set of hands is great and I have none of the child care sickness worries.

    I think back now to how bad I was and I just can't believe I got through it. It was the blackest time of my life. I don't feel I missed out on much anyway because as far as I'm concerned still, small babies are no fun. They are just nappies, feeds, sleep thieves and work. I'm really getting enjoyment out of them now at 12 months old. It really started becoming fun when they started crawling actually. Before that they were like lumps of hungry and frustrated baggage to be lugged around. A burden. Now they can play together and amuse themselves somewhat. They are so much happier when they can move.
    At four months old you are on the verge of all the good stuff starting to happen. Sitting is a godsend, crawling is fantastic !! If they are good eaters don't be surprised if you have them sleeping for a lot longer at night very shortly too.

    One last thing - never feel embarrassed about telling people you suffered from PND. The amount of people I have told who then say- yes my wife/sister/mother/myself suffered from it. Stay on the meds without guilt. I felt so good I tried halving the dose at maybe 9 months old and that was a mistake. Driving home one day I had a 'ffs going home to babies' thought and realised I need to be back on it. Then it took me 2-3 weeks to get back to where I was. Those drugs seem to take ages to kick in when you are in desperate need of salvation. If you want to know anything else, ask away. I'm an open book on this topic.
    Sorry for the mega spam.

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    3bubbys  (29-05-2017),Angelhearts  (30-05-2017),babyno1onboard  (29-05-2017),Charlie74  (30-05-2017),Foxy  (29-05-2017),gingermillie  (29-05-2017),keegan  (29-05-2017),kylie764  (30-05-2017),Mum-I-Am  (29-05-2017),Petulia  (29-05-2017),Reneeharry  (29-05-2017),SharonG  (05-06-2017),Wise Enough  (29-05-2017),wobbleyhorse  (30-05-2017)

  11. #17
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    I have no advice just big hugs OP.
    @JulieMalooley thank you so much for sharing your story. I think such open and honest discussion of PND is super important and very brave.

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    JustJaq  (29-05-2017)

  13. #18
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    JulieMalooley will respond another time, had a huge day today and not much left in the tank. Thanks so much for all of your responses.

  14. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JulieMalooley View Post
    People kept saying the same things to me too - yes its hard but it gets easier 'soon'. As soon as they can burp themselves its easier (true). As soon as they can sit up it gets easier (true too). As soon as they can xyz its easier (all true). None of it makes you feel better at the time and it just makes you wish their lives away and for these things to goddam hurry up and happen. I didn't give a **** that it would get easier 'soon' and those comments all made me feel worse. I had people telling me their babies slept through the night at 6 weeks old ffs. If your night is only 5 hours long perhaps that's true but WHEN will it happen for ME !! If you can't tell me good news then shut the hell up people.

    My PND kicked in around 6 weeks old - one day after DP went back to work. I spent 80% of the pregnancy saying I wasn't looking forward to twins. Everyone kept telling me how lucky we were. And a boy and a girl to boot. Yay for us. Not. I felt like punching the next person who said it. When we had them I then kept saying I was dreading DP going back to work. And boy oh boy was I sh1tting myself about that. The day after he went back I just started crying. I couldnt deal with them. Didn't want to get up at night. Hated washing bottles and making formula. Couldn't drag myself out of bed but made myself somehow. Didnt know how to stop them crying. Stressed that the other one would get woken. My SIL took one overnight at around 5 weeks old and the next morning the other one cried inconsolably and I had no idea how to stop her. I dropped her off with my SIL too and collapsed in a blubbering mess as I tried to leave her house feeling a complete failure that I was so relieve to be getting rid of them. I went home and got into bed with no intention of getting out for days if I could get away with it. I think that was the final straw and my family kicked into action organising baby sleep clinics, mental health nurse visits, dr appointments etc - all things I wasn't capable of doing. I couldn't even bring myself to make ONE of those phone calls for myself. Looking back they were obviously crapping themselves about me and my DP had no clue on what to do. He relied heavily on them too during this whole mess. Later that day we moved in with my brother and SIL and she did all the night feeds for a fair while and wore herself into the ground. And I let her. She has two small kids too btw. I could hear her feeding my bubs at 4-5 am and would not get up to help. I'd hear them bathing etc and wouldn't get out of bed to help. I just didn't want anything to do with them. I didn't hate them but I wanted nothing to do with them. I got a bit of a wake up when my older sister rang my SIL one day while I was standing nearby and overheard my sister saying 'more importantly - how are YOU holding up'. My younger sister told me I was wearing my SIL down and even though I wasn't capable of much, I forced myself to start doing the night feeds and hated every second of it. My sleep was more important to me. When the hell would they sleep through like everyone kept saying they would !!!
    The mental health nurse got me on meds immediately she saw me and then I started counting down the days. I couldnt even go back into my own home without feeling a black cloud of doom descend on me. After two weeks I felt much better then at 3 weeks I felt better than ever. Still didn't love those babies though and didn't look forward to caring for them on my own but I certainly felt more capable. I still don't understand how mothers can have 'immediate' love for their unborn babies. We don't even know these little people. They are strangers. And more importantly - will they look anything like either of us ?? Well, I can tell you that yes they will look like you. Epigenetics are absolutely amazing and @emski72 posted a picture once of 4 donated embies - same genetic parents for all 4 - who were transferred into two different women and both sets of twins looked nothing like the other set but they looked like the respective carrying mothers. It blew my mind. One of ours is a dead ringer for Daddy and the other looks just like all the kids in my family and supposed like me !! As I said earlier, they couldn't feel more like my babies - DE or not, I believe I would still feel the same.
    Now, at 12 months old - I'm working from home and have an au pair who cares for them upstairs during the day. (An au pair costs onnly $250 per week btw if you have a spare bedroom). At the end of the day and even during the day I find reasons to go upstairs for a cuddle. They are just so squeezable and I actually miss them. Keep in mind that I can't say I truly loved them until maybe they were 6 months old ish.. ? Even now, I'm not sure I love them anywhere near as much as other mothers do but its getting stronger and stronger all the time. It will grow on you too, there's no two ways about it. Let me bombard you with advice that you've probably already heard but these things kept me sane and make life easier now.

    Routine - I started following the save our sleep routine and adjusted it a bit as needed. 4 hourly feeds. I gradually started letting them wake on their own through the night (after the 11pm feed) and it got longer and longer apart until they made it through to 6am ish. Now we are 7pm to 7am. I hear them playing sometimes early in the am but they never cry. They know the routine and they know at 7 on the dot I will come in and get them and they get fed immediately.

    Crying - I've been lucky that we got really good babies but I read somewhere once that if they are crying, listen to the type of cry - if its a complaining cry (intermittent), leave them go for 5 minutes. Time it. Then go in. If its a distress cry, go immediately. During the night on the rare occasion we hear a cry, we wait a couple of minutes and it usually stops with no intervention. Probably a bad dream about the other one scratching/gouging/pulling their hair I reckon because that's just starting now

    Noise - we have a very echoey and noisy house with timber floors. We 'try' to be quiet but its impossible and the babies just get used to it. They are only noise sensitive if they are about to wake up anyway. Let them get used to noise otherwise you'll spend your life tiptoeing.

    Feeding - I can't recommend bottle feeding strongly enough. If they are getting enough food to fill them - they can start sleeping through the night. I'm not sure if you are breast or bottle or having feeding issues, but fill them with milk and get them eating as much as you can get into them at 6 months old and that's when mine started getting through the night. Seriously it CAN happen and then you can have a more normalish life. Also, I have a twincredible that I still give them their bottles in now. Talk about a lifesaver. I throw the bottles in their gob and can wash dishes etc while they watch cartoons.

    Burping - gad that was a pain in the butt ! Christ almight it was great when I could stop burping them !!! Why do they take so goddam long to burp !!!! To make our life hell, thats why. Because we have so much spare time, why not take up more of it.

    Separating them into their own rooms - Best thing I EVER did. It stopped me stressing about one waking the other and running in there as soon as someone cried. We had to move into a bigger house to do this but on the plus side we could then have room for an au pair. Cheapest child care ever.

    Getting back to work. I started working 1-2 days from home and now I'm lucky enough to be allowed to work 5 days from home. I started working when they were about 12 weeks old to keep myself sane and so I didn't just think baby/bottles/formula/washing day in day out. Adult stuff instead of baby, baby, baby, baby allllllll the time.

    Getting the au pair. The extra set of hands is great and I have none of the child care sickness worries.

    I think back now to how bad I was and I just can't believe I got through it. It was the blackest time of my life. I don't feel I missed out on much anyway because as far as I'm concerned still, small babies are no fun. They are just nappies, feeds, sleep thieves and work. I'm really getting enjoyment out of them now at 12 months old. It really started becoming fun when they started crawling actually. Before that they were like lumps of hungry and frustrated baggage to be lugged around. A burden. Now they can play together and amuse themselves somewhat. They are so much happier when they can move.
    At four months old you are on the verge of all the good stuff starting to happen. Sitting is a godsend, crawling is fantastic !! If they are good eaters don't be surprised if you have them sleeping for a lot longer at night very shortly too.

    One last thing - never feel embarrassed about telling people you suffered from PND. The amount of people I have told who then say- yes my wife/sister/mother/myself suffered from it. Stay on the meds without guilt. I felt so good I tried halving the dose at maybe 9 months old and that was a mistake. Driving home one day I had a 'ffs going home to babies' thought and realised I need to be back on it. Then it took me 2-3 weeks to get back to where I was. Those drugs seem to take ages to kick in when you are in desperate need of salvation. If you want to know anything else, ask away. I'm an open book on this topic.
    Sorry for the mega spam.
    @JulieMalooley tried to PM you but not sure if it worked, can't see it in my sent folder.

  15. #20
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    No I don't see it, sorry. I'll send you my email address


 

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