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  1. #401
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    Default WWYD? Trouble settling into big school

    In regards to funding. A school doesn't get extra funding for individual children with asd or spd or add etc. Not in nsw anyway. Children need to have multiple dx to receive an aide or other support. But yes, the school can use their existing funding to give extra support to children.

    I think paying parents to teach their children kind of undermines the teaching profession and everything that it involves.

    And the other point about saving the government money. I don't agree. Education is not a cost. It's an investment.
    Last edited by BigRedV; 10-05-2017 at 14:17.

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  3. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    In regards to funding. A school doesn't get extra funding for individual children with asd or spd or add etc. Not in nsw anyway. Children need to have multiple dx to receive an aide or other support. The school can use their existing funding to give extra support to children.

    Yeh I'm not sure exactly how it works, but last I heard, my kids school was paying for the lady they use to aide my son out of their normal school budget.

  4. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretched View Post
    I hope you didn't take my post as me saying "only qualified teachers can do this" because even some of them suck at facilitating learning! I was more pointing out that Winter's experience would be a definite advantage - he certainly sounds like he takes his job as the facilitator of his child's learning as seriously as any career. I don't believe that the majority of parents would be able to do as good a job as he is (please note, I'm not saying the majority of homeschoolers, just referring to the general population of adults with children).

    I actually passionately wish that EVERY parent took their job as their child's first and most important educator as seriously as many homeschoolers do. Unfortunately, too many parents think they can leave ALL teaching to schools (including manners and courtesy!).

    I credit Reading Eggs as teaching DD her foundation reading skills (which I could then build on) and I also frequently Google concepts my knowledge is rusty on before teaching them. I have YouTube to thank for most of our successful bathroom renovation! We are so lucky to have these resources at our fingertip now if you know how to use them well.

    I can also see that, in the right environment, the curriculum could be covered in about 2-3 hours a day plus unstructured investigation time for topics like science, technology and visual art. I can teach DD a concept in 10 minutes that would require 30 for my class where I'm providing for a variety of learner types rather than just one.

    What I don't think is that home/un schooling is the best choice for the majority of families because the majority of parents would not have the skills (or commitment to build up their skills) required for such an important job.

    It's great even non home educators can see the benefits. That shows an open mind.

    I agree that most parents don't have the commitment to build their skills.

    I have not come across a home educator that lacks this commitment, and because so many home educators are teachers, there is usually a couple of teachers at homeschool catch ups. It's a great chance for "professional" development.

    Yesterday, the discussion turned to teaching reading.

  5. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Is Coming View Post
    I guess the short (and cheeky answer) would be the question: if you didn't learn the school subjects well enough to teach them to your own kids, what makes you think that sending your kids to the same school system will yield a different result?

    Grammar: read good books.
    Maths: Kahn Academy, YouTube,
    Social studies: YouTube, holidays
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Is Coming View Post
    Do you mean people have said that youtube alone is what they can use to teach their child something?

    If so, I would appreciate it if you could quote it because I haven't been able to find it on my crappy phone.

    I am aware of comments saying children can learn about something using youtube. That's just common sense.

    Experiment: Look up Yi Long on YouTube and watch for 10 minutes but try not to learn about Yi Long. Record what you learnt.

    I am also aware that distance education is not generally ideal. Technically, that is not home education.
    I did one unit of literacy via distance education because the school required me to do a non science unit and did not have a class for me (I think that was the reason).
    Had I been allowed to study my chosen subject, French, I think it would have been better.
    There are quite a few comments stating their children learn through distance education or YouTube throughout the thread but especially the first few pages, I'm not quoting them all, just finding one of yours as there are over 300 posts and I'm not up for combing through them all.

    For somebody like you, who knows how to and is passionate about teaching, I don't doubt that your use of YouTube is only as a tool. But there has definitely been an insinuation throughout this thread that videos are perfectly acceptable as ways for a parent without further knowledge on a subject to teach their child. My point is, especially with more advanced subjects, that I do not think that type of learning compares to having a teacher with further knowledge in that subject. Watching videos is passive learning. And although, as I've stated I think it's awesome we have distance learning for areas that lack the resources, from my experience, I still do not think it comes close to having a teacher there with you.

    I'm not anti-homeschooling. I said before I have a friend homeschooling her three sons right now that I think is doing an amazing job, but I am yet to see with one pp any solid info that refutes any reservations I have with how some people are unschooling.

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  7. #405
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    Default funding

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    In regards to funding. A school doesn't get extra funding for individual children with asd or spd or add etc. Not in nsw anyway. Children need to have multiple dx to receive an aide or other support. But yes, the school can use their existing funding to give extra support to children.

    I think paying parents to teach their children kind of undermines the teaching profession and everything that it involves.

    And the other point about saving the government money. I don't agree. Education is not a cost. It's an investment.
    So NSW schools receive disability funding, but not per student?

    https://theconversation.com/disability-funding-in-schools-shouldnt-be-based-on-state-30018

    "As an example, consider a student living in NSW diagnosed with a mental health illness. They may be recognised as having a disability and therefore receive funding to support them to successfully access schooling. However, if they were to move across the border into Queensland, they would no longer be recognised as having a disability. Therefore, the level of resourcing they received to support them in their schooling would change significantly."

    "In recent years, the federal government has implemented a program known as More Support for Students With Disabilities. Around A$300 million has been provided to the states and territories. Individual education departments were required to allocate this funding within the guidelines of a loose framework.

    Not surprisingly, states and territories identified different priorities within their systems. This led to funds being allocated in different ways.

    Some states, such as Tasmania and New South Wales, allocated additional staffing directly into schools (in various roles). Victoria identified “curriculum and assessment” for students with disabilities as part of its focus. "


    If you check out the link you can see how some home educating families can easily save the taxpayer $100,000 annually.

    http://www.education.vic.gov.au/school/principals/finance/Pages/srpref015levels.aspx

    It's rare to hear home educators seriously saying they want funding, because that would come with strings.

    As to your concern about funding undermining the teaching profession, I don't really see the problem.

    Schools are not there for the benefit of the teachers. Anyway, cashed up families looking for tutors would be good news for teachers.

    I am not sure I understand your comment about education being an investment, not a cost.

    It is expensive, and investing in the education of home educated children would still be an investment. In fact, it would be a better investment, as home educators get better results.

    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/homeschooled-kids-perform-better-in-naplan-report-20160204-gmlgu9.html

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  9. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    There are quite a few comments stating their children learn through distance education or YouTube throughout the thread but especially the first few pages, I'm not quoting them all, just finding one of yours as there are over 300 posts and I'm not up for combing through them all.

    For somebody like you, who knows how to and is passionate about teaching, I don't doubt that your use of YouTube is only as a tool. But there has definitely been an insinuation throughout this thread that videos are perfectly acceptable as ways for a parent without further knowledge on a subject to teach their child. My point is, especially with more advanced subjects, that I do not think that type of learning compares to having a teacher with further knowledge in that subject. Watching videos is passive learning. And although, as I've stated I think it's awesome we have distance learning for areas that lack the resources, from my experience, I still do not think it comes close to having a teacher there with you.

    I'm not anti-homeschooling. I said before I have a friend homeschooling her three sons right now that I think is doing an amazing job, but I am yet to see with one pp any solid info that refutes any reservations I have with how some people are unschooling.
    Thanks. I wouldn't expect you find every mention of YouTube.

    Interestingly, you just quoted me explaining that youtube is not the only resource to teach something.

    Why then, do you argue that people are saying it is the only resource necessary to teach something?

    What observations have you got that I should be refuting?
    Of course, it would be hard for me to refute you saying you saw something, but I may be able to offer a different perspective.

  10. #407
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    Default WWYD? Trouble settling into big school

    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Is Coming View Post
    Thanks. I wouldn't expect you find every mention of YouTube.

    Interestingly, you just quoted me explaining that youtube is not the only resource to teach something.

    Why then, do you argue that people are saying it is the only resource necessary to teach something?

    What observations have you got that I should be refuting?
    Of course, it would be hard for me to refute you saying you saw something, but I may be able to offer a different perspective.
    No you said you can use khan academy and YouTube or holidays and YouTube. Or a good book to help you hone your grammar skills to become a contributing member of society.
    Last edited by HollyGolightly81; 10-05-2017 at 16:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Is Coming View Post

    If there is an unschooling guru that says that, fine. But then we can all just say "we subscribe to John Holt's unschooling method.

    Holt said "choice and control reside with the learner", not "don't offer the learner choice."

    Can you see the difference?
    Where did Holt say "don't offer the learner choice" or is that an interpretation?

    To me unschooling is child led. If a child asks to learn about biology or do a maths sheet, then certainly you can say here they are. As far as I can see, you can't say do you want to sit down and do this maths sheet together.

    Unschooling4 said to me, "lol we don't sit around playing video games all day, they are constantly learning day and night, they outsource other teachings and they write from text books" What a few of us want to see is an example of a day. I know there isn't a typical day but something along the lines of "my child asked about dinosaurs so we got out a book on that. The book mentioned Gondwanaland so my child then researched what that was and this led to .......... etc etc.

    I feel that there is no set criteria for unschooling, it can be interpreted however anyone wants it, just provided there is no curriculum as that becomes homeschooling.

    I have no idea who an unschooling guru is. I googled and the name Sandra Dodd came up. Sandra herself writes there as many definitions of unschooling as there are people doing it. on her page she has definitions of unschooling:-


    Q: What is unschooling?
    A: Unschooling is a term that the late John Holt coined in the late ‘70's to describe learning that is based on a child's interests and needs. Unschooling does not begin with a parent's notion of what is important to learn and then turn the choices of how to learn the content over to a child. Rather, it begins with the child's natural curiosity and expands from there. Unschooling is not "instruction free" learning. If a child wants to learn to read, an unschooling parent may offer instruction by providing help with decoding, reading to the child, and giving the child ample opportunity to encounter words. If the child is uninterested in these supports, the parent backs off until the child asks for help. The most important thing about the unschooling process is that the child is in charge of the learning, not the adult. Unschoolers often do no traditional school work, yet they do learn traditional subject matter. They learn it as a natural extension of exploring their own personal interests.

    Q:
    Is Eclectic or interest-led learning the same as unschooling?
    A:If the terms "Eclectic" and "interest-led" learning describe homeschooling practices which put the child's learning needs before parental notions of what is important to learn, then the term "unschooling" applies. However, if "Eclectic" homeschooling simply means using multiple teaching methods, then Eclectic homeschooling is not unschooling.

    http://sandradodd.com/unschool/definition

    I also found a mother who unschools who had this on her website

    http://www.sheilabaranoski.com/the-d...cookie-baking/

    The way I see it, is if you say you are unschooling, you can have the resources there but if a child never asks about/for it, they never see it.

    What happens when a child doesn't ask questions? What if when they are 13 they want to spend their days watching tv, playing video games or just ride their bike. What happens then?

    Last edited by Wild Rose; 10-05-2017 at 17:14.

  12. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Is Coming View Post
    So NSW schools receive disability funding, but not per student?

    https://theconversation.com/disabili...on-state-30018

    "As an example, consider a student living in NSW diagnosed with a mental health illness. They may be recognised as having a disability and therefore receive funding to support them to successfully access schooling. However, if they were to move across the border into Queensland, they would no longer be recognised as having a disability. Therefore, the level of resourcing they received to support them in their schooling would change significantly."

    "In recent years, the federal government has implemented a program known as More Support for Students With Disabilities. Around A$300 million has been provided to the states and territories. Individual education departments were required to allocate this funding within the guidelines of a loose framework.

    Not surprisingly, states and territories identified different priorities within their systems. This led to funds being allocated in different ways.

    Some states, such as Tasmania and New South Wales, allocated additional staffing directly into schools (in various roles). Victoria identified “curriculum and assessment” for students with disabilities as part of its focus. "


    If you check out the link you can see how some home educating families can easily save the taxpayer $100,000 annually.

    http://www.education.vic.gov.au/scho...015levels.aspx

    It's rare to hear home educators seriously saying they want funding, because that would come with strings.

    As to your concern about funding undermining the teaching profession, I don't really see the problem.

    Schools are not there for the benefit of the teachers. Anyway, cashed up families looking for tutors would be good news for teachers.

    I am not sure I understand your comment about education being an investment, not a cost.

    It is expensive, and investing in the education of home educated children would still be an investment. In fact, it would be a better investment, as home educators get better results.

    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/homeschool...04-gmlgu9.html
    That SMH article on NAPLAN said only 10% of home school students sat the test so I don't think you can really count that as better results compared to schools!

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  14. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elijahs Mum View Post
    That SMH article on NAPLAN said only 10% of home school students sat the test so I don't think you can really count that as better results compared to schools!
    I know, I was just being cheeky.

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