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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachy82 View Post
    Actually I am a true unschooler and I ask my kids if they want to do educational things all the time. I think your understanding of what unschooling truly is may be very off centre. We have books all over our house, about 1000 different educational apps and computer programs, and any course online they wish to use. We don't force them, no, but we don't not have things for them to learn from either. My 16yr old has learnt more being at home for the last 8mths than she ever did at school, and that's with a child that was lost in the system who hates learning these days. Imagine what my younger three whom have never set foot in a classroom could achieve with this freedom!
    My understanding of unschooling came by watching it in action for 3 days and reading about it to truly understand it. My relatives are in Connecticut. I looked up the education guidelines for that state and read about it. I came across an article that they linked to where a home educator had explained the differences. This lady mentioned that parents who say they unschool yet ask their kids if they want to do educational things, are having their cake and eating it too. The article was written in 1999. Maybe unschoolers have now realised that they have to ask their children as the children weren't asking themselves. The ideas of unschooling may have changed hence you now asking your kids what they wish to learn that day.

    The author of the article starts off by quoting a line from the book, The Unschooling Handbook, which is
    "Unschooling means learning what one wants, when one wants, in the way one wants, for one's own reasons. ... choice and control reside with the learner ... She may find outside help in the form of parents, mentors, books, or formal lessons, but SHE is the one making the decisions about how best to proceed. Unschooling is trusting that your children are at least as clever and capable as you are yourself."

    Amongst other things the author then writes:-
    Partial Unschooling…Isn't
    Some parents think that you can have "partial unschooling" where the parent leads and teaches "a little." But you can't have your unschooling cake and eat it, too.
    Parent-initiated teaching contradicts the fundamental aspect of unschooling: that the child is in control leading and teaching herself. In unschooling parents may be available to answer questions, to provide materials, and to facilitate learning to match the child's interest, but parents don't teach the child according to what they think the child ought to learn. With unschooling the child decides what, when, and whether she wants to learn.
    Those who call themselves "partial unschoolers" are parents who, quite sensibly, cannot fully resign themselves to trust their children's supposed innate ability to completely direct their own education. These parents continue to pay lip service to unschooling, since they may not be following a rigidly defined curriculum and want to distinguish themselves from homeschoolers who follow a strict schedule and a "school-ish" curriculum. Instead, so-called "partial unschoolers" teach their children the subjects they think are essential, and still give them as much freedom to pursue their interests as is possible.

    http://www.mhea.com/features/unschool.htm
    Last edited by Wild Rose; 09-05-2017 at 15:03. Reason: spelling

  2. #332
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    And that really kind of skirts around what I've been wondering....

    if a child consistently saying they aren't interesting in learning anything, and just want to watch tv/play the play station and sleep all day, what is the response to that?

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmashie View Post
    There may be a couple of anecdotal kids going on to "Princeton", getting great jobs etc. I would suggest they are the exception to the rule. Do you have any idea how hard it is out there to get a job? A lot of employers won't even look at you unless you have a degree. Doesn't always necessarily have to be in the field but it demonstrates that they can achieve and cope with a high level of learning. Sure, your kids might be smarter than everyone else's put together but with a resume that reads "mum taught us at home... when we felt like it" up against someone that has tangible results, your kids are going to stand a chance imo.

    It's just the way it is...
    This goes to show that not many people actually know what unschooling is like. My children can get all the degrees that they want, just because they are home educated doesn't mean they can't.
    As for how hard it is to get a job, I am in Australia where the unemployment rate isn't overly high but it is still hard to get a job, even for those with a degree. But my children will work at any job it takes to get money and to get ahead in life until the right one comes along. My 16yr old isn't old enough to do the career she wants quite yet so she is working at a take away shop and is looking at a few courses she is interested in doing.

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  5. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparklebug View Post
    On the contrary your younger 3 could possibly flourish in schools, your setting the tone for them because of the experience of the older child, but as your not sending them you won't know. Just as I won't know what my kids would get out of unschooling. I don't believe that avoiding school is a precedent in achieving more.

    I beg to differ. I have not once told my children they can't go to school. They have many friends whom do, or will go to school. They are told all about school, they aren't sheltered and told this is the only way. And as a parent it is my legal obligation to see my children get an education, at this stage my older three have chosen to get theirs at home. We are parents whom are open to all ways of life, just as you believe in sending your children to school, we don't. So until our children are old enough to make their own decision then we will be doing what is closest to our family's values. It is the same as religion. If I was catholic I would raise my children catholic but they would have a choice when they are older whether or not they remain that or something else.
    I think this is what it keeps coming back to people keep asking what happens in unschooling, but the answers are very vague, mostly.

    I'm totally open to sharing our lives with people whom are genuinely interested in learning about it, but not for arguments sakes.

    We all get its hands on, but being a mum is hands on, my kids at school but I wouldn't say I'm not hands on. I think we all love our kids and want a bright future for them, main****** school does not mean we are not interested in their wants, these are the things that get people riled up, because we're talking education it has nothing to do with 'if you love your child'
    I never once said anything about the way you raise your children, or that you love your children less because you send them to school. They are your children and you have every right to raise them how you see fit. Just as I do. And I agree with you, this is their education and once again it is my legal right to choose how my hold receives that. This is the way I and my partner, my kids plus my ex, want our children educated at this stage in their lives. Education is hugely important in our lives and this was not a decision we made lightly, instead it was something carefully thought out over about 4-5yrs. We want the best for our children and to us the best is them being happy, enjoying learning instead of being forced to learn what and when, that they aren't growing up side by side with mainly just children their age, that somebody I barely know from Adam is basically raising my child 6hrs a day 5 days a week, and that we as a family can be together whilst we all learn from each other.

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  7. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachy82 View Post
    I never once said anything about the way you raise your children, or that you love your children less because you send them to school. They are your children and you have every right to raise them how you see fit. Just as I do. And I agree with you, this is their education and once again it is my legal right to choose how my hold receives that. This is the way I and my partner, my kids plus my ex, want our children educated at this stage in their lives. Education is hugely important in our lives and this was not a decision we made lightly, instead it was something carefully thought out over about 4-5yrs. We want the best for our children and to us the best is them being happy, enjoying learning instead of being forced to learn what and when, that they aren't growing up side by side with mainly just children their age, that somebody I barely know from Adam is basically raising my child 6hrs a day 5 days a week, and that we as a family can be together whilst we all learn from each other.
    Do you will think that your children will become too reliant on you? School teaches kids independence. Being together 24/7 for years upon years when they get to a certain age surely limits this independence?

  8. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachy82 View Post
    I never once said anything about the way you raise your children, or that you love your children less because you send them to school. They are your children and you have every right to raise them how you see fit. Just as I do. And I agree with you, this is their education and once again it is my legal right to choose how my hold receives that. This is the way I and my partner, my kids plus my ex, want our children educated at this stage in their lives. Education is hugely important in our lives and this was not a decision we made lightly, instead it was something carefully thought out over about 4-5yrs. We want the best for our children and to us the best is them being happy, enjoying learning instead of being forced to learn what and when, that they aren't growing up side by side with mainly just children their age, that somebody I barely know from Adam is basically raising my child 6hrs a day 5 days a week, and that we as a family can be together whilst we all learn from each other.
    No you didn't, I wasn't taking it personally, I quoted you because you had said if you love your child and want a bright future for them, that's what everyone wants, I just meant one way dose not equate to loving more.
    Without a doubt I think all parents put a lot of thought into their child's education, to make sure they have as may options as possible.(of course there are always exceptions, as with everything.)

    You have a very negative take on schools, they aren't all like that. I don't think that teachers are raising my child, (we are currently not in Aus, so my child does not spend as many hours in school as she did in Australia, but even then I didn't think the teacher was raising her.) To me they are providing a service, that they are paid for, I do know her teachers, I make an effort to be involved in every aspect and regularly am in contact with them, sometimes it's just email, but I make an effort to see them face to face as well. She has also had a teacher I didn't like, not personally, just the way she did things, we had lots of meetings and lots of discussions.

    Not all teachers are the same, even in this thread, I think it's harvs, who mentioned doing 13 lesson plans for 16 children, I often pick up from her posts just how much effort she puts into her class, there are teachers like this IRL, to whom this is not just a job they care for these kids, I've worked with children and I know first hand that it's effortless to care and become attached to them.

    Not all schools are an institution where free will is quashed, my child has a teacher that saves a period for discussions on current events important to them, she does some lesson plans around this. They're challenged to think outside the box, form educated opinions.

    My child does enjoy learning except for maths- this she will avoid at any cost, so I feel she that for some things children need a little push, at least mine does.

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  10. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unschooling4 View Post
    Lol i can assure you we dont just play games all day. Lol.

    We do things almost every day or night. My kids are constantly learning including taking classes sometimes. Shock horror! Unschooling isnt just not sending kids to school and not doing anything. Unschooling is about learning together and letting the child set the pace. We often outsource other info and teachings. My kids often do sit down and write from text books. Its their decision. Its also tjeir decision to go to school too, but so far it hasn't come up.
    Why not answer any of the respectful questions that have been put forward to you? My experience reading your posts is that you come into most threads making sweeping comments that somebody should leave school or childcare, that it's damaging them or the child is being abuse, etc but rarely offer insight into what you actually do besides you let them get up whenever they like, stay up however long they want and not brush their teeth or hair because you respect their wishes. I would love to know what the day is like for your children, especially your older two. What classes do they/have they taken? Are they expensive? I imagine with four kids, outsourcing classes can get expensive.

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  12. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmashie View Post
    Do you will think that your children will become too reliant on you? School teaches kids independence. Being together 24/7 for years upon years when they get to a certain age surely limits this independence?
    Children have been together with their parents 24/7 for a very, very long time. It's this modern paradigm which is actually unusual, historically speaking. That said, our children are not with us all the time. They visit friends, other families, have classes and camps.

    Many home educating families love the tight knit family culture that is a side effect of the lifestyle. We certainly do. On the other hand, independence is coming slowly but surely, and naturally, to my children. I've never had to deal with a five year old crying and clinging to me saying that they hate school and can they please stay home? But I have a healthy, outgoing six year old saying, you know mum, I don't really need you to stay (at a playdate or class or similar). It's really an organic process.

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    I would also like to know what an average day looks like for Unschooling4. You say unschoolers are judged but I find this is one of the main reasons - lots of sweeping cliches of main****** , lots of negative terms like abuse and damage, but really lacking in substance in what a day or week looks like. You aren't the only unschooler in this thread and others have given extensive ideas of what happens and how their kids learn. Which I find fascinating even if I don't personally agree with it.

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    Default WWYD? Trouble settling into big school

    I found this statement from a participant in Gray's study when googling unschooling, and I think it sums up why many of us have reservations regarding it:

    'I actively disagree with unschooling because I believe that it is a very easy way for unwell parents to bring their children up without needing to actively participate/integrate into society.” She didn’t study anything or develop a satisfactory plan for her own life, she said.'

    ETA: you may get **** parents that don't do more to engage their children with mains.tream school but those children have other people on their side since they go to school. With unschooling those children only have the parents.
    Last edited by HollyGolightly81; 09-05-2017 at 16:49.

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