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  1. #201
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    Default play

    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    I'm sure they were but you seem to be missing the key point of that post. You mentioned Finland earlier and how they have the best schools in the world and they do not start school until 7. They may not start traditional academics until 7 but they still attend preschool with teachers creating structure and lesson plans for them, it is play based and child led but not completely unstructured and free range. If I'm wrong and that's what you do for your 5 and 7 year old then great, but I've gotten the impression from your posts that you don't and seem to practice more unschooling right now.

    ETA: also, your example with the tape measure...I'm fairly certain that is something that would happen in households around the world where parents value their children's curiosity. That example doesn't seem particularly special to me, most of us do things like that; teach them how to use a tape measure, teach them how to bake and work out quantities, take them to parks and botanic gardens, etc. How does your child's day differ from a weekend or afternoon in my house?

    Oh, that Finland info was an attempt to disprove a point I made?

    Sorry, I already knew that. That's why I said they don't start academics until 7.

    Unschooling, in my mind, is not simply letting kids play.
    A key concept is "strewing", that is, finding items with a high education value and exposing your kids to it, even if it is just by sitting it on the kitchen bench.

    I extend that to excursions, of course, putting children in educational locations. I don't hold back from discussing the mechanisms of erosion while looking at eroded cliffs, because that would just be idiotic.

    The tape measure example was a case of strewing, in a way. My kids were fighting over a toy so I said "who wants to pay with my tape measure?"

    Is anything I am doing different from what school kids get on their time off?

    No.

    I never said it was.

    I mentioned that home education is simply continuous parenting, and it's exhausting.

    Nothing amazing about it. Just like as I pointed out there is nothing amazing about a teacher using "scaffolding" nor anything surprising about an enquiry unit being useless if the child has limited base knowledge on a subject.

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  3. #202
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    I know nothing about education in Finland so googled and found this , interesting reading on how their rankings are now slipping and the Asian countries with longer school hours have increased their ranking :

    https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp....13-grf643.html

  4. #203
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    Default asd and home education

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    My school and my children's school isn't open plan. The classes are only with their teacher and their class. They are just flexible working spaces. Children can choose to work at the work space they like. But you are right, a small minority of students took a while to adjust. Interestingly, it is the children who are on the spectrum that prefer their own space and like to choose the same spot to work yet some parents in this thread of children on the spectrum who have taken their kids out of mains.tream are the ones being critical of traditional classroom settings and children sitting in rows. Not that many classes are in rows these days anyway.

    I also want to add that it takes more than a few days to adjust to flexible learning spaces and I'm guessing open plan although I have not had experience with that. We started introducing it at our school in 2014 and it was a huge adjustment for the teachers and the students. But our students are so much more engaged and have greater choice about their learning. We have actually been nominated for an award for student achievement/growth for 2016.
    That's odd. I thought it was you who appeared outraged that I would suggest possible asd. Must have been someone else.

    Home education works for children with asd like my son because we can control the noise, smell, and to an extent, routines.

    My son would only sit on a leather recliner when eating due to sensory issues. We got him a special cushion and he can now sit on the regular chairs and watch his fish in his aquarium.

    He has managed a week without this cushion because it got dirty, and can now sit on the wooden chairs.

    Unschooling is particularly popular with autistic children.

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  6. #204
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    Default Not enough for an education

    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I've thought this before too. We'll cook with the kids - which includes following written directions, maths for measurement etc. We'll discuss world events, play soccer out the back DD and I will talk about the themes in Romeo and Juliet that she is reading.

    That doesn't mean it's enough for an entire education. We supplement. This is a normal weekend for us *shrugs* But I'm not a science teacher. Or maths, in fact I'm not even a real teacher yet.
    You are right. It is nothing special.

    If you worry it is not enough, fear not. Many unschoolers demand schoolwork, like mine, who use Excel workbooks.

    We also have more time for museums etc.

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  8. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elijahs Mum View Post
    I know nothing about education in Finland so googled and found this , interesting reading on how their rankings are now slipping and the Asian countries with longer school hours have increased their ranking
    They've actually made some changes recently as well but one set of statistics say they're ranked at the highest position others that they're slipping. It is quite interesting how they do things though. I think the big difference when talking pays is that 'generally' in Europe government jobs are paid well, and people want to work in that sector as they are generally the good positions to be in.
    Although I do not think you could take another countries model and use it else where, because mentalities are so different around the world, and that would have a huge impact.
    Pervious pp's have mentioned starting school at 7, this is generally how most schools function in Europe, but they do have other kinder equivalent things before school.

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  10. #206
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    Default Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by Elijahs Mum View Post
    I know nothing about education in Finland so googled and found this , interesting reading on how their rankings are now slipping and the Asian countries with longer school hours have increased their ranking :

    https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp....13-grf643.html
    Nice article. Thanks.

    The point about salaries is interesting, but the important thing is the salary compared to other professions, not compared to the buying power of Australians.

    Yes, lack of diversity probably helps them.

    Yes, Asian countries with extreme school hours, pressure, and homework also achieving a high standard of scores.

    But which system would you prefer your child to be raised by?

    Most parents want health, happiness, and academic success for their child. Normally happiness is more important to parents than academic success.

    So if we were to borrow ideas from other countries, teachers and parents will still generally prefer to borrow ideas from a system that doesn't harm the health and happiness of children.

  11. #207
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    Default catering to ASD

    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    The one size fits all approach is basically gone now. My DD is in a selective high school and does gifted classes. Our primary has an amazing remedial and reading recovery program and I know teachers have done extensive training beyond the undergrad to run them. We have a music program, a heap of active sports team and our debate team is consistently one of the best in the state. We cater for ASD/ADHD/SPD. Our primary has a gifted program.

    It's not like when we were at school. Differentiation is huge now.
    What is involved with catering to students with ASD?

  12. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Is Coming View Post
    Nice article. Thanks.

    The point about salaries is interesting, but the important thing is the salary compared to other professions, not compared to the buying power of Australians.

    Yes, lack of diversity probably helps them.

    Yes, Asian countries with extreme school hours, pressure, and homework also achieving a high standard of scores.

    But which system would you prefer your child to be raised by?

    Most parents want health, happiness, and academic success for their child. Normally happiness is more important to parents than academic success.

    So if we were to borrow ideas from other countries, teachers and parents will still generally prefer to borrow ideas from a system that doesn't harm the health and happiness of children.
    I chose a small private school for my DS, small class sizes, plenty of teachers aides, enquiry based , primary year program IB, boys school with tons of sporting options and plenty of time for free play - he's absolutely thriving so for us it's perfect, I could never offer him the same experiences at home (or could afford not to work!) but I'm sure that may not suit everyone

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  14. #209
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    I probably have no business being in here. Not a teacher and my eldest is just in kindy.

    But I have a question for those who unschool or homeschool particularly for the reasons of ASD.

    How do you envision your child coping when they get older in the 'real world'.

    They will need conflict resolution. They will need to do things they feel uncomfortable with and do not like. They will need to deal with people they do not like.

    I understand that for children with ASD the world is ridiculously hard to deal with and live in. But should we not at an early age ensure they have the tools to thrive outside of the home bubble?

    I do know someone with 3 ASD kids. One of whom finds school and the world in general hard to deal with. But his parents, teachers and school give them all the tools they need to function in school and the world.

    OP - I think getting a psych to address the anxiety would be a good first step. Also have a good chat with the teacher/school.

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  16. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Is Coming View Post
    What is involved with catering to students with ASD?
    I know this question wasn't directed to me, but I have an ASD child who started primary school this year and I can tell you how our school caters to him.

    He attends a mainstr.eam public school and is in a support class. There are only 8 students in his class - one teacher and one aide. They have a top quality sensory playground and a huge trampoline for sensory breaks. They also have a huge variety of other equipment to assist the children with their needs. Children are very well supervised at all times whilst in the playground. The children's therapists are also welcome to attend and do therapy sessions at the school (my DS's OT and Speechie regularly visit). The children follow the curriculum, but it is tailored to their individual skill levels.

    My DS has far exceeded our expectations when it comes to settling into school. He is absolutely thriving on the routine and structure that formal education offers. We were quite concerned on how he would transition, as even last year he was having some struggles at preschool with challenging behaviours. We haven't had a single issue since he started primary school - his teacher cannot speak highly enough of his achievements, and due to this we imagine we'll soon be approached about transitioning him to a mains.tream class environment.

    We are very fortunate to be in the position to have a school that is a perfect fit for him - I know for a fact there are many ASD kids who simply cannot fit into mainst.ream education for a variety of reasons.

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