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  1. #91
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    Default "lacking passion" and taking offence

    Quote Originally Posted by sniggle6 View Post
    So are you suggesting the kids are "lacking in passion" isn't having a dig? That because the photo doesn't show the children "appearing to be passionate" isn't having a dig?

    My 6 year old is extremely passionate about school and learning. He loves it. But I highly doubt he will be exhibiting it every single minute of every single day. To suggest from a single photo that they have no passion and it's because they're stuck in a mains.tream classroom environment is pretty offensive.

    And don't tell me you didn't say those exact words. It's pretty clear what your thoughts are from the words you did use.
    If the phrase "lacking passion" is the best you can come up with them you are scraping the bottom of the barrel, my dear.

    I gave an honest assessment of the photo. If I were to put photos of my kids engaging with older kids on here you would see the obvious difference.

    If you choose to take offence at an honest assessment in order to show the difference between home ed and main****** school, then I am not sure how I can shield you, other than not being honest.

    Personally, I think my comment regarding a teacher's reading comprehension was more likely to cause offence, despite being warranted due to her choosing to misunderstand me in order to "take offence" rather than discuss logically.

    Choosing to take offence is a fantastic way to end a discussion if you find your logic to be failing you. But I can see through it.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Is Coming View Post
    I guess the short (and cheeky answer) would be the question: if you didn't learn the school subjects well enough to teach them to your own kids, what makes you think that sending your kids to the same school system will yield a different result?

    Grammar: read good books.
    Maths: Kahn Academy, YouTube,
    Social studies: YouTube, holidays
    I have a bachelor of arts with first class honours and did my PhD, and yet when my DD was learning to read I learnt valuable things from her teachers about how to teach her to read (or support her in learning to read). Whilst I had all the skills to read the books I didn't necessarily have all the skills to teach her to read them in the best way possible. The point being just because I know how to do something it doesn't mean I'm necessarily the best equipped to teach that skill to someone else.

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  4. #93
    harvs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unschooling4 View Post
    You really need to research unschooling and how it works. You need to understand how children learn best and how learning is done best with their interests. As for maths, english etc unschooled children learn these things throughout ever day life. They learn what they need when its needed, rather than being forced. Some unschooling children like worksheets and tests. Its never forced though. Some unschooled children/familes have schedules for things like activities. Others go with the flow.
    Many unschooling teens get into uni or tafe too. Reslly look into it.
    Speaking of research, have you looked into the work of John Hattie? He has conducted years and years of investigation into which aspects of education will bring about the best outcomes (I am referring specifically to learning here rather than social elements).

    Surprisingly, he found that inquiry-based learning (ie using children's interests as a foundation for learning) had a significantly lower impact on academic outcomes than was previously thought. The *single biggest* influence (positive or negative) was the teacher.

    I would also add that many, many teachers have a sound understanding of how children learn, and program by providing children with a range of opportunities to demonstrate their learning, not by 'forcing' children to do worksheets and tests. We even have undergone years of training and practical experience to qualify us to do so!

    Standardised testing is the arena in which children are 'forced' to do one kind of testing, and I think you'll find many teachers have problems with standardised testing for this reason.

    I'm sure you are pretty familiar with the curriculum, so would know about the different complexities of the content as reflected by the developmental stages reached by students. The problem with the curriculum is that it assumes children of the same chronological age are all the same. We all know this isn't true, and this is why learning is as a rule differentiated to cater not only for learning styles but developmental understanding too. Which is another way of saying learn what they need when it's needed.

    I'm doing time at the moment in maths. My year 4s 'should' be able to tell time to the minute at year 3 level, but one of my year 4s only knows o'clock and half past. So my job is to take him from what he knows and take the next step (quarter past and quarter to). I wouldn't be 'forcing' him to the year 4 outcomes because he is simply not there yet. Knowing what kids need and being responsive to that is not purely the domain of home schooling or unschooling.

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  6. #94
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    Default outsourcing instruction

    Quote Originally Posted by bezzy View Post
    I have a bachelor of arts with first class honours and did my PhD, and yet when my DD was learning to read I learnt valuable things from her teachers about how to teach her to read (or support her in learning to read). Whilst I had all the skills to read the books I didn't necessarily have all the skills to teach her to read them in the best way possible. The point being just because I know how to do something it doesn't mean I'm necessarily the best equipped to teach that skill to someone else.
    Point taken.

    Home educators are very committed, so if they want to teach their children to read they will spend the necessary time and effort to learn how to teach that.

    Resources: google, books, youtube, home educators, teachers, etc.

    I also outsource instruction to swimming teachers, karate instructors, music teachers, etc.

    I can do all of those things but I am sometimes not the best person to teach my kids.

  7. #95
    harvs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Is Coming View Post
    I guess the short (and cheeky answer) would be the question: if you didn't learn the school subjects well enough to teach them to your own kids, what makes you think that sending your kids to the same school system will yield a different result?
    Seriously though! If my son ends up being a gun at physics and accelerated maths, I won't be able to do a thing for him beyond Year 8. I didn't study them myself beyond that level, so my teachers weren't to blame, it just wasn't my talent and my interest.

    What is the next step at this point?

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  9. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Is Coming View Post
    I guess the short (and cheeky answer) would be the question: if you didn't learn the school subjects well enough to teach them to your own kids, what makes you think that sending your kids to the same school system will yield a different result?

    Grammar: read good books.
    Maths: Kahn Academy, YouTube,
    Social studies: YouTube, holidays
    Because knowing something isnt the same as being able to teach it. And you seriously do educators a massive disservice by implying that it does.

    And what if your kids go on to more high level academic in areas that dont match up with your own educational persuits? You cant youtube senior physics.

    You've just demonstrated one of the big problems people have with the homeschooling community. Instead of admitting there are challenges that require additional thought and work (just like in other educational environments) and having an open conversation about it, you throw youtube (really? REALLY?) at me.

    I was actually genuinely interested in how home school community handled it. I have a gf in the process of starting an independent school rather than just doing home school due to her fears around this very thing.

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  11. #97
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    This has turned into a fascinating discussion!

    I'll say this: as a trained (if not practicing) high school teacher, I could homeschool my kids and do a damned good job of it, at least if I could avoid butting heads with my DD all day.

    There is absolutely no way that I could expose them to the breadth and depth of knowledge and experience that their school will though; not with my current social circles. If I were to homeschool my kids, there would come a point where they would need to be significantly involved with teachers/groups/communities outside of my realm to really develop the skills that they will want and need in their future.

    Absolutely, this can be done outside of a traditional school setting, but it could take an awful lot of work ensuring that kids can find and engage with the people and structures that will help them.

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  13. #98
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    I cant teach my children everything. Thats where other resources, activities etc come into it. Home or unschooled kids do and can take classes sometimes even by teaches

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  15. #99
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    Default physics and maths

    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    Seriously though! If my son ends up being a gun at physics and accelerated maths, I won't be able to do a thing for him beyond Year 8. I didn't study them myself beyond that level, so my teachers weren't to blame, it just wasn't my talent and my interest.

    What is the next step at this point?

    I understand it is very daunting indeed.

    Options: khan academy, youtube, university units, tutor

    My wife did distance education in year12 and had a tutor for mathematics.

  16. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unschooling4 View Post
    I cant teach my children everything. Thats where other resources, activities etc come into it. Home or unschooled kids do and can take classes sometimes even by teaches
    Now see, this is an actual answer.

    Do you guys do those classes in a traditional school like an audit or do the Home ed community organise classes for a small group? Or am I not thinking outside the box enough lol. My cousin does it but she is woefully unprepared for it and one year her child was in and out of traditional schooling several times during the year so it's interesting to talk to people who are a bit more committed to it.


 

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