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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    From just reading the blurb...I'm pretty skeptical that the documentary would be a fair representation of the issues at hand and it's causes. An example would be the male suicide rate or workplace deaths. 1) I would imagine the suicide rate would have more to do with our lack of funding mental health programs combined with the fact that many men do not seek help for depression, which I would not think historically or currently has anything to do with feminism and men's lack of rights. 2) higher number of workplace deaths...I would assume 1: that there are more men in the workplace and 2) they tend to do more risky careers (construction, fire fighters, police, military, etc). All fields that women want to play more of a role in but experience back lash and pull back when they try.

    I do not agree that the film should not be shown though.
    I'm guessing it's not about blaming feminists at all.
    I'm blaming them for getting the screening shut down but in the film itself I think it's more about saying hey, we empathise with your plight, but we want to have a voice too.
    And tbh, some of these third-wavers are positively rabid!
    They do the movement no good at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    I agree it shouldn't be banned. But I assume it would still allowed to be shown, i.e. It's not illegal, more just some cinemas feel it's not worth it financially? So maybe some independent places will show it?
    So far it's not banned.
    But it should have been shown last Oct or November and here we are in mid-April still seeing these issues.
    It's really backwards of Australia I think.

    Between this and Ayann Hirsi Ali not being protected by our government to speak here this month as well, it's just really disappointing and on a world stage pretty embarrassing.

    Not such a free country.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    Yes, they do seem to be different (except for the reference to the Keanu movie), but I'd be amazed if she had no knowledge of it. Which makes me question why she chose that title, but I guess that's a bit conspiracy theorist of me ������

    To be honest I'd probably watch it myself...
    I had no knowledge of the Reddit threads until it was mentioned in here today but in hindsight I think I had accidentally come across one or two of them while googling the documentary but I didn't read too much, just thought I had been redirected or something.
    Yep, I do wonder if she chose the title (or maybe it was given to her) for a reason?
    But having read a couple of the threads on thee I would think it would be the last thing she needs for the docu to be a success.

    Seeing the film would confirm that one way or the other.

  3. #23
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    As I said, I would support it's right to be shown, but not support it's message. Except in rare cases - for me, homophobia, racism, straight out misogynism I generally support free speech.

    But I find Australia pretty supportive of freedom of speech where it doesn't cross the overtly offensive lines. The fact it's been pushed out of cinemas tells me therefore maybe it is? I dunno.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    As I said, I would support it's right to be shown, but not support it's message. Except in rare cases - for me, homophobia, racism, straight out misogynism I generally support free speech.

    But I find Australia pretty supportive of freedom of speech where it doesn't cross the overtly offensive lines. The fact it's been pushed out of cinemas tells me therefore maybe it is? I dunno.
    Me too.
    None of that appeals to me.
    But I don't understand how people who haven't seen the film have managed to kick up such a fuss to have it pulled.

    Just makes me determined to see it for myself.
    I shall let you know how it goes.

  5. #25
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    Default The Red Pill.

    OK so I might be the only hubber who has actually seen The Red Pill? I am basing my opinion of it on first-hand experience. If others are truly interested in watching it you can access it online (for a fee) or probably download it from a torrent site too. It hasn’t been banned in Australia, there has been public opposition to private venues staging viewings who have then backed out. I don’t support preventing people from seeing it – let them see it cos it ain’t all that.
    It’s a lightweight mish-mash of soundbites. It’s definitely not a heavyweight, hard-hitting, investigative documentary. And the presenter is disingenuous in her attitude towards the ‘opposing’ side. You can see the little eye rolls and smirks and the general disrespectful attitude in the first half when she interviews those against her obvious thesis that men are hard done by.
    Having said all that she completely lost any credibility for me when she aired and did not critique or question (which is essentially the style of the whole 2 hours – soundbites that aren’t probed, questioned or critiqued) an interview in which the subject said that the Boko Haram kidnappers (who kidnapped almost 300 young girls in Nigeria 3 years ago, most of which have never been rescued) were ‘chivalrous’ because they didn’t kill the girls and if they were boys they would have been killed. I mean WTAF. Whatever the context of that discussion it was revolting. There was also another comment in the film that women who had been young victims of family violence will continue the cycle as they “will want to live on this knife edge of crisis and danger”. I just can’t see any context in which someone in a position of power (as a film-maker is) would legitimately repeat this stuff without challenging or exploring it.
    The documentary highlights obvious stuff like most deaths in war are men and most workplace deaths are men and most suicide deaths are men. These things are true and not ok but have complex reasons behind them and I do think there is work being done to address workplace safety and male mental health issues for example. The film also conflates domestic violence against women with violence against men and we know from statistics that the prevalence, experience and outcomes are just not the same. Again not diminishing violence against men (and male-male violence in society is a huge issue) but in the film it is just not addressed well in my view. Men's rights vs women's rights, men's health vs women's health, nothing benefits from this portrayal as a competition of who has it worse.
    The film for me highlights more (and not in an explicit way, I mean more in terms of my understanding of the subtext) about the cultural construction of what it means to be a man – something which society as a whole (including men) has been complicit in constructing over time. But the film largely fails to acknowledge that there is still structural exclusion of women from roles of power and that historically many decisions were made by men about women and for women and there is a legacy from this today. We can’t negate the very recent and significant oppression that male-dominated societal structures have perpetrated against women which means women have come from a very low base (even simple things from our mothers’ generation like not being allowed to drink in a front bar, not being permitted in certain professions, not being allowed to apply for a bank loan etc). On the other hand, current societal and government structures are still geared towards women as primary caregivers and men as providers (something the film takes rightful issue with). To effect change (which would be a positive thing) requires massive structural change and expansion of social welfare (and concomitant increase in taxation if we look to Scandinavian social welfare systems and support of paternity care for example) which hardly anyone supports when it comes to the crunch. I also don’t disagree when the film says that men’s roles have been displaced as we’ve moved from the ‘traditional’ gender roles over the last 40-50 years especially but I don’t believe that this societal change is wrong.
    After all that – it’s quite an underwhelming 2 hours. The film highlights some obvious points, doesn’t propose any solutions and doesn’t critique any positions to any real extent.
    If you are interested in a serious sociological perspective of masculinity then I highly recommend looking up the work of Raewyn Connell, a renowned Australian sociologist who focuses on types of masculinity.
    ETA she named the film the red pill in correlation with a men's rights website (that has been criticized for hate speech) that uses this term so she knew exactly what she was doing in naming it.
    Last edited by gingermillie; 20-04-2017 at 23:13.

  6. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to gingermillie For This Useful Post:

    babyno1onboard  (21-04-2017),BettyV  (21-04-2017),binnielici  (21-04-2017),delirium  (21-04-2017),Frankenmum  (21-04-2017),harvs  (20-04-2017),HollyGolightly81  (20-04-2017),JustJaq  (21-04-2017),Phony  (21-04-2017),Stretched  (22-04-2017),TheGooch  (21-04-2017),twinklify  (21-04-2017)

  7. #26
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    I guessed as much. And some of those comments are gross, in particular that girls that grow up in a DV house will chase the drama as adults. As one of those girls, I find that comment offensive.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to delirium For This Useful Post:

    gingermillie  (21-04-2017)

  9. #27
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    Thanks @gingermillie. Wise words, as always ☺

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