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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phony View Post
    We all have horrible histories.
    Look at what the British did to Ireland.
    Famine my ****, it was genocide.

    If I had a penny for every time an Aussie made a potato joke to me or my Dh then I'd be making a pretty pound.
    Am I to forever hold it against the British people?
    I just couldn't.
    I have made so many amazing friends over the years who were English.
    I have the most wonderful English friend here now in Australia
    I don't think we've ever even brought the conversation up.
    I don't think anyone is saying we should hate fellow Aussies with anglo decent waaay back like myself. But we should acknowledge it. Just as the Irish should and do. We stole their land, we killed them, took their children and forced our religion and culture on them. As someone whose decendants have been in Aust since pretty much colonisation, that's not my fault and of course others shouldn't hate me. But we can never forget. Not only out of respect, but bc the past has a lot of lessons to teach us.

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosey82 View Post
    Agree the way Aboriginals were (still are) treated was/is horrendous. Perhaps we should change the date of Australia Day to be more inclusive, but a day to celebrate being Australian is something we all need.
    I am of Scottish and Irish heritage though and nobody has ever apologised to me for the highland clearances. We could be farming in Scotland still, but my family were evicted from their crofts by the English, forced to emigrate. I've been to my ancestral lands and feel a close bond, but we've just had to get over it and move on. At what point do we get to move forward in Australia? Genuinely interested not having a go.
    I think the difference is that overall, the Scots are doing well in a whole range of areas. They suffered awful treatment (which again, should never be forgotten) but as a country/culture they are still doing well. Indigenous people have shocking morbidity and suicide rates. Terribly low representation in tertiary education. Are often living in poverty.

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  5. #103
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    Just like the Canadian holocaust, lots of similarities between their aboriginal people and Australia's.

  6. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phony View Post
    I'm not overly patriotic either.


    Would it be acceptable for Chinese New Year celebrations to be advertised with Muslims on the banners?

    It's OK to say it's not right.
    It's OK to want to keep some of your identity, isn't that what Muslims want for themselves, how come it's OK to fight for their right to wear the hijab but not OK for me to say I don't want my customs to change?

    What customs of yours are changing? So you prefer the Chinese celebrate their own holidays, the Christians there own holidays and Australians their own holidays? The problem with Australia Day is that we are ALL Australian - that's the whole point!

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  8. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elijahs Mum View Post
    What customs of yours are changing? So you prefer the Chinese celebrate their own holidays, the Christians there own holidays and Australians their own holidays? The problem with Australia Day is that we are ALL Australian - that's the whole point!
    My response was about St Patrick's day and to freyamum, but whatever, I'll spell it out.

    If I was to see a banner for an Irish holiday two Muslim women as the new faces of this holiday YES, it would bother me.

    Ireland is a catholic country (probably more non-practising now) and that particular holiday is celebrating a saint and is our most Irish day of the year.
    Muslims would have nothing to do with it.
    Never have never will.
    That shouldn't be offensive to anyone, it's just a fact.
    We can't be all things.

    Anyway, in the original post that Freya quoted me on, I was putting side-by-side what my most Irish day is in comparison to what Australia Day is to some Aussies and how that banner might be interpreted by some.

    Granted, my day is definitely different as it's not Ireland Day (but is to us) so that would most likely never happen.

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  10. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phony View Post
    We all have horrible histories.
    Look at what the British did to Ireland.
    Famine my ****, it was genocide.

    If I had a penny for every time an Aussie made a potato joke to me or my Dh then I'd be making a pretty pound.
    Am I to forever hold it against the British people?
    I just couldn't.
    I have made so many amazing friends over the years who were English.
    I have the most wonderful English friend here now in Australia
    I don't think we've ever even brought the conversation up.
    .
    Like I've said before, sure, lots of places have horrible histories. Not many places party about them. Having Australia Day on a day that the so-called First Fleet landed and the atrocities against Aboriginal people began can be seen as celebrating, and attempting to deny and erase that horrible history.

    I have to say I'm not up on my Irish history and culture. But when people make jokes about potatoes to you and your DH, surely they're not joking about the famine and how funny it was? Surely the joke is something along the lines of 'Irish people stereotypically eat a lot of potatoes'? Which may well be an inaccurate stereotype, but surely it's not a joke about the famine. I can't say I've heard any potato jokes - I'm just guessing here.

    'Getting over it' is not as simple as 'I've made friends with people from that other nationality/culture and now those systemic and systematic attacks on my people and culture are all forgotten' - you (as a culture and a people) remember, like you personally do - it was an attempted genocide, I'm sure the cultural scars run deep, not to be forgotten.

    As to your upset if people in hijabs were celebrating St Patrick's day - is St Patrick's day really a Christian festival? Genuine question - obv. I'm not from Ireland, and in Australia at least, it seems more to be a celebration of all things Irish. Sure, it was originally a Christian celebration, but now?

    As to Muslim people celebrating Chinese New Year - well, a quick Google tells me that about 29 million Chinese are Muslim - why shouldn't they celebrate and be on posters, etc? Anglo old me has even been to Chinese New Year celebrations.

    Surely part of the joy of having a cultural identity is sharing it with others?

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  12. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phony View Post
    I'm not overly patriotic either.
    I would go out for St Patricks day celebrations though, just because the buzz was too good to resist.

    But nope, I would be mad to see that, tbh.
    What have Muslims got to do with a Christian Holiday?

    Would it be acceptable for Chinese New Year celebrations to be advertised with Muslims on the banners?

    It's OK to say it's not right.
    It's OK to want to keep some of your identity, isn't that what Muslims want for themselves, how come it's OK to fight for their right to wear the hijab but not OK for me to say I don't want my customs to change?
    St Patrick may be a Christian figure but the holiday is not Christian at all. And you know what? If a Muslim waa celebrating the day, they're "integrating" and you're offended yet if they don't celebrate it, they're not integrating. I really feel like that can't win.

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  14. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I think the difference is that overall, the Scots are doing well in a whole range of areas. They suffered awful treatment (which again, should never be forgotten) but as a country/culture they are still doing well. Indigenous people have shocking morbidity and suicide rates. Terribly low representation in tertiary education. Are often living in poverty.
    This. I think the difference for me is that Ireland and Scotland have weathered the troubles and come out the other side. They have their own Government and country again. And I don't mean to minimise it, as it was an awful time and the loss must still be felt, but I don't feel you can compare the situations.

    To have their country back won't ever be possible for the Aboriginal people. 2017 and how many Aboriginals are represented in any Australian Parliament?? 38 since 1971. Hardly a fair representation.

    The fact it took decades for a PM to have the guts to apologise for the stolen generation is disgusting. I grew up not far from a mission. The effect it had on the local aboriginal community was devastating. Kids were taken from their grandparents while their parents were at work. Yes, some were taken because they weren't being looked after, but it wasn't for their benefit. The missions were awful. The treatment those children suffered was dreadful. They were farmed out as slaves. People still suffer because of what happened. Our government did that. And we should be ashamed of it.

    Aboriginal people are still treated like second class citizens. It's easy to say they should just get over it, but how can they when they are constantly reminded of it and the way we treat them is still not great? You put your foot on someone often enough and they will stop trying to get up.

    It's easy to look at what's happening up north and blame it on booze. But we gave them booze. We caused a lot of problems and our Government is doing nothing to try to solve it. There's communities in the far north that still live their traditional life, and we tell them they can't and try to take their land. So the displacement is still happening. It's not past history for them. It's something they still have to face now.

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  16. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustJaq View Post
    Like I've said before, sure, lots of places have horrible histories. Not many places party about them. Having Australia Day on a day that the so-called First Fleet landed and the atrocities against Aboriginal people began can be seen as celebrating, and attempting to deny and erase that horrible history.
    I've already said that it would be good to change the date.
    I think a lot of people agree on that one.
    However, I would look at why some Aussies don't know why there is bad feelings about this date.
    I don't think anyone should be torn to shreds for being patriotic and told how horrific that date is, instead ask how come they don't know?
    Aren't they being taught the real history in school?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustJaq View Post
    surely they're not joking about the famine and how funny it was
    No, it's usually meant to mean like we'd only die if we didn't have a spud to eat.
    It's not a big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustJaq View Post
    'Getting over it' is not as simple as 'I've made friends with people from that other nationality/culture and now those systemic and systematic attacks on my people and culture are all forgotten' - you (as a culture and a people) remember, like you personally do - it was an attempted genocide, I'm sure the cultural scars run deep, not to be forgotten.
    And I never said it was,it has to happen organically, just like multiculturalism if it's going to survive. Otherwise it's gonna create a hotbed of resentment and inevitable troubles.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustJaq View Post
    As to your upset if people in hijabs were celebrating St Patrick's day - is St Patrick's day really a Christian festival? Genuine question - obv. I'm not from Ireland, and in Australia at least, it seems more to be a celebration of all things Irish. Sure, it was originally a Christian celebration, but now?
    Yes, I know my granny would still go to mass and her family continue to do so, so do the children on that side of the family but all in all lots of people don't go to mass as much these days.

    The children in school would be taught the story of St Patrick was though and probably given a little project around that time.
    Everyone knows it's the saint's day but like anything else, people found other ways to celebrate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustJaq View Post
    As to Muslim people celebrating Chinese New Year - well, a quick Google tells me that about 29 million Chinese are Muslim
    Ah, cheater!
    I didn't check Google, my bad, Muslims are not the first image that comes to mind when I think of China and I suppose it does sound like a huge number but in a population of 1.3 billion it's not all that much, so no surprise it's not the primary image in my mind.
    Happy smiling faces is the image I get.

    I picked the Chinese new yr as an example because it's huge here.
    I probably would be a bit confused to see the hijab wearing women on a poster to advertise it but I've never lived in China.
    I wouldn't have known of that was representative of the country or not.

  17. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phony View Post
    Aren't they being taught the real history in school?
    No. At least I know I wasn't. I'm 43 and we were taught all about the great things that happened after settlement, but nothing at all about the aboriginal people, the massacres, stolen generation, how our diseases wiped out thousands of them etc. I hope that has changed. My kids are only in year 2 and pre-primary, so haven't done history as such yet.

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