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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I agree it's probably too fresh to discuss that particular case. Apologies.

    However I stand by the general sentiment that
    *if* negligence is involved in a child death (failing to take reasonable due care) then I think there is absolutely room for charges to be laid. Lacking intent to injure a child does not mean a free pass, neither does the fact the person already has experienced personal grief over the situation. I believe in this not for punitive measures but rather as a deterrent to other parents who may be putting their kids at risk in a similar fashion. That's not a new legal concept - it is in practice at the moment (child neglect cases for example). It's not meant to be a stab at the parents - rather an attempt to help future child victims. The amount of preventable child deaths over the last few weeks is horrific.
    It's not because it is 'too fresh'. It is the lack of any apparent empathy towards the parents or loved ones.

    They do not need 'punishment'. They need love and support to get through this difficult time.

    I just do not understand your current stance on trying to punish everyone.

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  3. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full House View Post
    How does anyone know if the deaths over the last few weeks were due to negligence, though?
    We don't and may never know. Either way there will be conjecture. We can only talk in "if's".

    Just because media does or doesn't report certain things doesn't make it true or untrue, people will always read between the lines and make an assessment on what they think may or may not have happened.

    Some may assume negligence, others may not. Neither assumption is 'wrong' it's just that, an assumption.

    I tend not to read stories like this anyway as it just upsets me. I couldn't watch the Jon Bonnet (sp?) case where they came up with the 'answer' to the case. I also can't stand to think about what happens to Maddie McCann. So sad

  4. #143
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    I don't quite understand how the punishments will prevent future deaths. The vast majority of parents do things because they want to protect their children, not to avoid going to jail should the unthinkable happen. Saying that I will go to jail if I accidentally harm my child is not going to change my behaviour - what will change my behaviour is education and awareness about potential dangers and prevention measures.

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  6. #144
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    Default Leaving kids in car for Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by babyno1onboard View Post
    I don't quite understand how the punishments will prevent future deaths. The vast majority of parents do things because they want to protect their children, not to avoid going to jail should the unthinkable happen. Saying that I will go to jail if I accidentally harm my child is not going to change my behaviour - what will change my behaviour is education and awareness about potential dangers and prevention measures.
    Imagine if a parent was charged for not maintaining their pool fence properly/inadequate supervision (not having doors that lock from the inside and then leaving their toddlers to their own devices near a pool for 30 minutes or so)?

    It would have parents everywhere talking. And may led a few being more vigilant (eg refusing a rental property where the doors could Not be locked from the inside).

    It's not about punishment at all. It is about prevention. I hope that makes sense!

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  8. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Imagine if a parent was charged for not maintaining their pool fence properly/inadequate supervision (not having doors that lock from the inside and then leaving their toddlers to their own devices near a pool for 30 minutes or so)?

    It would have parents everywhere talking. And may led a few being more vigilant (eg refusing a rental property where the doors could Not be locked from the inside).

    It's not about punishment at all. It is about prevention. I hope that makes sense!
    Yes I agree about the pool fence, and also car seats etc. People need to charged (and are I think) regardless if something goes wrong. These type of people are 'it will never happen to me' type people and the consequence of going to jail if something happens to their child I don't think would change their behaviour.

  9. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Squared View Post
    We don't and may never know. Either way there will be conjecture. We can only talk in "if's".

    Just because media does or doesn't report certain things doesn't make it true or untrue, people will always read between the lines and make an assessment on what they think may or may not have happened.

    Some may assume negligence, others may not. Neither assumption is 'wrong' it's just that, an assumption.

    I tend not to read stories like this anyway as it just upsets me. I couldn't watch the Jon Bonnet (sp?) case where they came up with the 'answer' to the case. I also can't stand to think about what happens to Maddie McCann. So sad
    I am just trying to make sense of how a thread about a blog post regarding a woman leaving her kids in the car has turned in to a thread about the recent deaths of children over the last few weeks and discussing whether or not the parents should be arrested.
    I was at a public pool once and asked a couple of friends to mind my 1 year old while I took an older child to the toilet. As I came out of the toilet, my 1 year old met me at the entrance...crawling past two pools to get to me. That day could have ended in tragedy. My friends were horrified. I had asked two of them to keep an eye out, but between watching their own children and thinking that the other had eyes on mine, my baby had crawled away unnoticed. I can tell you now that if my baby had fallen in to a pool the last thing I'd want or need is to be arrested, or have my friends arrested (depending on who is supposed to be the negligent one in this scenario). It was an accident...and I sure as heck wouldn't want someone who wasn't there and didn't know the details suggesting that we were negligent parents.
    Accidents happen. No one has their eyes on their kids every second they are awake, no one. It's crass to suggest that these parents are negligent without knowing any of the details.

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  11. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyno1onboard View Post
    Yes I agree about the pool fence, and also car seats etc. People need to charged (and are I think) regardless if something goes wrong. These type of people are 'it will never happen to me' type people and the consequence of going to jail if something happens to their child I don't think would change their behaviour.
    But even if we could save the life of just 1 child, isn't it worth it to try and do more. Look at loopholes in legislation etc. close those loopholes so less children die.

    I'm actually surprised that some states have only just legislated against pools with no fences. SA has for as long as I can remember had pool fence legislation.

  12. #148
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    Thank god your one year old was safe. However if the worst had happened then your friends would have been at fault and IMO should have been charged. A 1 year old should be within arms reach at a pool - your friends should have ensured that and if they couldn't (due to their own kids etc - understandable) then they should have said no when you asked them to mind your toddler.
    I have said no to friends requests before as I had my hands full with my own kids and knew I couldn't keep a close enough eye on their kids.

  13. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Squared View Post
    But even if we could save the life of just 1 child, isn't it worth it to try and do more. Look at loopholes in legislation etc. close those loopholes so less children die.

    I'm actually surprised that some states have only just legislated against pools with no fences. SA has for as long as I can remember had pool fence legislation.
    I think this is different than running around charging people.

    I agree that there should be tighter legislation. So the focus should be on that and not punishing people for accidents.

    I do think one small change that should be made is ensuring pool fences have one of those spring lock/close things. And that any houses with pools should have regular council (or independant) inspections to ensure fencing/pool etc meets requirements and does not need repair.

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  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinklify View Post
    I think this is different than running around charging people.

    I agree that there should be tighter legislation. So the focus should be on that and not punishing people for accidents.

    I do think one small change that should be made is ensuring pool fences have one of those spring lock/close things. And that any houses with pools should have regular council (or independant) inspections to ensure fencing/pool etc meets requirements and does not need repair.
    I'm not talking about charging people, just making new laws that may just get people to think twice about their 'it won't happen to me' attitudes.

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