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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveLivesHere View Post
    @delirium
    Its nice to see you back here. You have been missed.
    Thanks

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  3. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    I remember that thread & it was ridiculous. Saying parents shouldnt drive on less than 5 hours unbroken sleep a night 😕 My DH works 12 hour days, so cannot be at my beckoned call. No public transport where we live & school a 30 minute drive. But that's ok - my DD is only a girl, so she doesnt need educating, right 😏 She can stay in the house all day, wth me, cooking and cleaning because I havent had the prescribed 5 hours unbroken sleep. Better teach her to garden too, because I cant drive to get groceries. Or take my child to therapy appointments, or to the doctor or hospital if needed. Actually, my dh might be better off quitting his job so he can do the driving (women probably shouldnt drive anyway, they really are better off cooking and cleaning at home...) & we can go on the dole. But we cant leave the kids in the car to pay for petrol (none of this new-fangled 'pay at the pump' stuff anywhere near where we live... infact, I'm yet to see a 'pay at the pump', so i will have to st least be allowed out of the house so we can go together to get petrol (which we will struggle to afford on the dole anyway...) FFS. Some people live in a freaking fairy land.
    Full marks for theatrics.

    I understand it's not easy especially when school drop offs are involved. That being said bottom line - I don't care what the challenges are, if you have the equivalent concentration of someone with a 0.05+ blood alcohol reading (for whatever reason including 5 hours or less of broken sleep) then I don't want you on the road anywhere near me, my family or friends. There are alternatives - look into them or stay home. It's not about sticking it to the new mum, it's about preventing deaths due to risky behavior.

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  5. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveLivesHere View Post
    Sleep deprivation is different to drink driving as drynk driver has the choice to drink or not. The sleep deprived person has done everything in the power not to be sleep deprived. It wasnt their choice to be so.
    Doesn't matter when the risk they pose to others on the road is the same. The family of someone killed due to fatigue is not going to care one iota that the negligent driver had tried not to be sleep deprived. Cold comfort.

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  7. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustJaq View Post
    I think that is part of the point @Sally1981 was making. People commonly make moral judgments about different activities (drink driving = morally bad; driving while severely sleep deprived = many will empathise and not judge) when in fact the risk profile of the different activities may be exactly the same.

    It's an interesting point, and not one I'd thought much about before. Thanks Sally1981.
    I was agreeing with that sentiment.

    I think it can be applied to other situations too. Eg stealing. Stealing to just to have something vs stealing so you or kids won't strave after you done everything in your power to fed them and it has failed.

    I am in no place to judge other mums. I done plenty of things that i am not proud of as mum and a human being. I try my best and do what i think is right at time and hope to hell its the right thing in the long run.

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  9. #115
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    Default Leaving kids in car for Latte

    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    And as a supposed feminist and a training teacher, do you believe girls deserve an education?
    Well that was a plucked from the nether region comment if I ever did see one (yes - takes one to know one, I know )
    Last edited by VicPark; 01-01-2017 at 20:22.

  10. #116
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    Trigger warning.

    This is a bit off topic (and might better belong in the other thread about the differences between tragic accidents and culpable behaviour), but I've been thinking too about the horrible case recently of the mother who hit and killed her 7 mth old in a pram in the car when leaving a funeral. Police have said she is unlikely to be charged. I haven't seen much in the news stories about the circumstances of why it all happened. But the decision whether or not to charge her (which I expect will be formally made by the DPP, not by police statement) has most likely to do with moral judgments about the mother's actions. Who couldn't feel sorry for a mother like that, whatever the circumstances. How unbelievably horrible. Chances are it was just a horrible, horrible accident. Maybe there were contributing factors, maybe there weren't, who knows. But if she was under the influence of drugs or alcohol, I bet she would be a lot more likely to be charged with manslaughter. The outcome in each case would have been the same though, it's just that our moral judgement in relation to it is different.

  11. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sally1981 View Post
    Jesus, I feel like I set off a bomb in here...
    Thankyou Sally for breathing some life into the hub!

  12. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustJaq View Post
    Trigger warning.

    This is a bit off topic (and might better belong in the other thread about the differences between tragic accidents and culpable behaviour), but I've been thinking too about the horrible case recently of the mother who hit and killed her 7 mth old in a pram in the car when leaving a funeral. Police have said she is unlikely to be charged. I haven't seen much in the news stories about the circumstances of why it all happened. But the decision whether or not to charge her (which I expect will be formally made by the DPP, not by police statement) has most likely to do with moral judgments about the mother's actions. Who couldn't feel sorry for a mother like that, whatever the circumstances. How unbelievably horrible. Chances are it was just a horrible, horrible accident. Maybe there were contributing factors, maybe there weren't, who knows. But if she was under the influence of drugs or alcohol, I bet she would be a lot more likely to be charged with manslaughter. The outcome in each case would have been the same though, it's just that our moral judgement in relation to it is different.
    I've been thinking about that case too - RIP poor baby.

    I find it hard to believe the vehicle malfunctioned on it's own to the point it did and the baby was run over. I find it hard to believe there wasn't any parental responsibility involved. As to whether the mother should be charged or not, I honestly can't say without knowing more facts. Just have to hope that the authorities involved who do know the facts made the right decision for everyone (baby, mum, dad) and that a free pass wasn't given due to the sympathy factor.

  13. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    And as a supposed feminist and a training teacher, do you believe girls deserve an education?
    I'm sorry but I just cannot see the correlation at all between people driving under the influence (whether that is under the influence of alcohol or sleep deprivation as both can have similar outcomes) and the education of girls
    So if a parent is too tired and dangerous to drive means their daughter (but not their son ) somehow immediately misses out on an education because they can't get them to school on the odd occasion? It just doesn't follow.
    If someone is properly sleep deprived then no they should not be driving on country roads. It's the same as driving under the influence of alcohol as sleep deprivation can have similar horrific consequences, it's well documented. It's like saying people who live in the country should be able to drink drive as there aren't Taxi's around. Nup sorry. You crash head on into my car on the school run because you're too tired to be on the road I don't care what your excuse is there is no excuse.

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  15. #120
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    It was her brother's funeral. Pretty sure it was a crap day all round for the poor woman.

    And let's be clear...to have a similar effect on performance as 0.05 blood alcohol level you would have to be awake for 17 hours, not 5 hours of broken sleep. I'm not defending anyone who drives severely fatigued but there's a big difference in 5 broken hours of sleep and being awake for 17 hours.

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