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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Yes. It's not because I think parents don't love their kids. It's because people think 'it won't happen to me.' Their fence is fine. It will be fine if they just take a 10 minute shower while their kid is in the backyard - nothing will happen to them. Add a financial/custodian/other penalty for inadequate pool fencing/supervision and it adds a whole other dimension to the mix.
    You cannot live your life with your eyes on your children 24/7. Your expectations regarding standards in parenting is certainly something I will never achieve so maybe you should lock me up now. To prevent future incidents from my recklessness and inadequacy as a parent and caregiver.

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  3. #32
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    Default TRIGGER WARNING: Where is the line between tragic accident, tragic error of j...

    Quote Originally Posted by twinklify View Post
    You cannot live your life with your eyes on your children 24/7. Your expectations regarding standards in parenting is certainly something I will never achieve so maybe you should lock me up now. To prevent future incidents from my recklessness and inadequacy as a parent and caregiver.
    That's a bit dramatic. Yes 24/7 eyes on is impossible. However when a pool is involved there are additional measures that a parent could and should take - it's not something that is unreasonable or beyond the abilities of yourself or other parents. You can not convince me that a child drowning in a backyard pool is something that could not have been reasonably prevented.

    From the latest report on drowning a in Australia:

    http://www.royallifesaving.com.au/__...6_ReportLR.pdf
    ImageUploadedByThe Bub Hub1483099655.905264.jpg
    - the actions of adult guardians are key.

  4. #33
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    Actually in regards to pools I'm with VP on that one - the new pool fencing regulations came in here in Sydney a few years ago, I sell a lot of homes built in the 60,s and 70,s that just about every 2nd home in the suburb had a big pool and very few had decent (if any) pool fences but as soon as the new regulations came in , with fines , there was a rush to get the fences done , for me, the fear of my kid drowning would have done it but these people had their kids grow up without one so they didn't think it was a big deal and to save money a lot of new owners, with kids didn't bother either until they had too

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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renn View Post
    Do you really think that people are going to take more care with water due to fear of prosecution, than due to fear of their child drowning?
    Yes unfortunately, as with my post above I had a ton of landlords with pools who thankfully now under the law must have approved pool fencing, before that hardly any bothered as there was no rule they had too - now they get fined and all pools have to be registered in NSW so they will get caught

  7. #35
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    I don't know the exact case of the twins drowning. But based on my thoughts of culpability being based on how much you place your child in an inappropriate situation - I don't consider the bulk of drownings on the same level as Zoe.

    With many drownings, the parent doesn't just leave a toddler by the pool and go inside. The child has dragged over a chair to reach the safety latch. The 2 yr old has found the gauze door open while mum is on the phone and played with the rickety fence until they squeezed through. That is so much lower on the culpability scale than a parent that leaves her child for 2 hours in bed around drunk and drugged up people and those she knows has been to jail for violence.

    While not fixing the pool fence or accidentally leaving the screen door ajar has obviously contributed to these examples, they are far less inappropriate decisions.

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  9. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    With many drownings, the parent doesn't just leave a toddler by the pool and go inside. The child has dragged over a chair to reach the safety latch. The 2 yr old has found the gauze door open while mum is on the phone and played with the rickety fence until they squeezed through. That is so much lower on the culpability scale than a parent that leaves her child for 2 hours in bed around drunk and drugged up people and those she knows has been to jail for violence.
    Pool fences terrify me. My 5yo has autism so has a tendency to run away as it is. But at 2.5yo, I saw him scale a pool fence (thankfully not around a pool, but exact same type of fence) in about 15 seconds. I've seen him do it quite a few times since. I do often wonder with these drowning stories, surely my kid can't be the only one that can climb them. I was lucky and found out when my kid climbed it at a playground. What if I wasn't lucky and the first time I realised he could do it was because he was face down in a pool.
    We've had houses that you can't key lock from the inside. What if one of them had a pool, and I took 30 seconds to go to the toilet. He could have easily gotten in. Add to that, that he loves water and has no fear or understanding of danger.

    That's why I try to reserve judgement for those parents.

    When we moved into our current house (owned by my husband work), there is a pool across the road with a proper pool fence but I kicked up a stink and within a few days had a big tin fence installed in front of the front (which is actually on the side of our house) door. That way he can't sneak off in the night to go jump in a pool.
    Again, something I may not have done had I not seen him climb a pool fence before.

  10. #37
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    I agree with regard to financial etc. penalties for inadequate fencing. Hat isn't the issue we were discussing though. We were talking about punishing parents for their actions AFTER something had already happened to their child.

    Yes, fines or other penalties for preventative measures are useful. People avoid speeding because they don't want to get a speeding fine, not because they don't want to hurt someone. Nobody thinks it will happen to them. I imagine the same is true of pool fencing and he like.

    The reality is though that there are very few situations where at kind of regulation and penalty can be put in place. It needs to be a risk which is deemed by pretty much the entire community to be unacceptable, and one which can be policed. You couldn't, for example, implement penalties for leaving a child under 10 unsupervised. Some people would find that reasonable, but not the whole community. You also couldn't feasibly penalize a parent for leaving their child unattended in a pool; how would you know?

    My comments with regard to punitive measures being ineffective were in relation to those implemented after the fact. That's what makes hem punitive, rather than preventative.

  11. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahalfdozen View Post
    We've had houses that you can't key lock from the inside. What if one of them had a pool, and I took 30 seconds to go to the toilet.
    .
    I would think having a house that isn't key lockable from the inside would be a no-no with young kids, especially if there is a pool around?
    I know it's easier said than done however parents saying no to houses with pools and doors that aren't lockable from the inside would (IMO) be the first line of defence in preventing childhood drowning tragedies.

  12. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renn View Post
    My comments with regard to punitive measures being ineffective were in relation to those implemented after the fact. That's what makes hem punitive, rather than preventative.
    Punitive for the parent of the deceased child, however preventative for every other parent with a pool looking on in horror

  13. #40
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    I often think about one little girl in particular that died close to our family and wonder if the parents could be blamed or was it just a accident but basically she was sleeping on a matress which wasn't pushed up against the wall and she fell in at some point and suffocated. The strange part was they told the police a slightly different story about her being found on the bed rather than down the side. I'm not sure why... they also seemed to be back to normal appearances on facebook a few days later which was odd to me. So many tragic things happen to little ones đŸ˜£ breaks my heart.


 

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