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  1. #51
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    *I* would consider all of those things you mentioned damage. Perhaps not tiny scrapes not over 1cm big and not deep light be wear and tear. Gradual warring down of carpet, gradual discolouration of grout (not mould or build up of dirt), minor scuff marks in pantry from plates, containers scraping are more wear and tear to me.

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    I think most of the things you've described are damage not wear and tear. To me wear and tear is something that is unavoidable over time like carpet wearing out whereas damage is something that wouldn't be expected or is caused by carelessness. Doesn't need to be willful or malicious to be damage - accidents can cause damage.
    All those things you listed I think a tenant would need to repair as they are not natural wear and tear of an item.
    This might help clarify the difference:
    IMG_1482790246.530491.jpg

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    [QUOTE=MysticFalls;8627349]

    for example say we are moving in and we scrape the door jam even if its a minor scratch. Is that fair wear and tear or damage in your opinion?

    Minor scratch in moving accident fair wear and tear

    or

    we are moving in and we make a big long scrape mark on the door jam and damage it a little with the fridge causing wood to splinter. Is that damage or fear wear and tear?

    Damage , as that's irresponsible moving not noticing a long scrape mark and causing wood to splinter which then may over time damage it to need a full repair

    Or

    if you dropped a plate on the tiles and a little chipped off. Is that fair wear and tear or damage?

    Accident so fair wear and tear ( as long as it's not a common occurrence)

    Or

    If you were moving in and dragged a cupboard causing a long mark or split in the tiles. Would that be fair wear and tear or damage?

    Damage by deliberately dragging a cupboard, a child would know not to drag a cupboard!

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  6. #54
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    I would consider all those examples damage.

    Dropping a dish COULD bee fair wear and tear- as it happens to everyone- but I would still expect to fix the tile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoopuf View Post
    I think damage caused maliciously or through carelessness shouldn't be classified as fair wear and tear. So scratches from moving furniture, imo, would be damage because it's caused by carelessness.

    Worn carpet in high traffic areas would be fair wear and tear, because no matter how careful you are it is unavoidable.

    Hope that makes sense.
    Agree, carelessness is not the same as wear and tear.

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    Some I agree with.


    But what if you had a really big fridge? And it scraped the door jam a little??

    If I owned a place to rent out I would expect this.

    If you don't want something like that I wouldn't rent it out. I would move in.

    Cause sometimes no matter how careful your removalists are things still happen. People don't mean to cause this, it's part n parcel of having people move in and out your home.

    We haven't done these things just asking

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticFalls View Post
    Some I agree with.


    But what if you had a really big fridge? And it scraped the door jam a little??

    If I owned a place to rent out I would expect this.

    If you don't want something like that I wouldn't rent it out. I would move in.

    Cause sometimes no matter how careful your removalists are things still happen. People don't mean to cause this, it's part n parcel of having people move in and out your home.

    We haven't done these things just asking
    These are the reasons there are tenancy tribunals to hear and determine residential tenancy matters in dispute.
    Landlords expect fair wear and tear - items that wear out over time.
    What they don't expect is people to expect carelessness to be the landlord's problem.
    I agree, sometimes no matter how careful removalists are, they might still damage something. But why should that be the landlord's problem? They didn't engage the removalist, the tenant did. So the tenant is responsible for any damage caused by someone they engaged.
    I'm not sure why you're worried about a really big fridge scratching a door jam if this isn't your situation.

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    I do have a really big fridge (so big that in fact it doesn't fit in the fridge nook ) and I just insist it's covered with a blanket when moving it through doorways so that no damage can occur.

    I am a landlord, and I expect fair wear and tear will happen, however if it happens because of 'accidents' (which to me, are the same thing as carelessness), I feel like that shouldn't be my problem to deal with. If it's minor and has no impact on the liveability of the property (e.g. scuff marks inside a wardrobe, plants die in the garden), I really wouldn't be worried at all. But if it's something like a large burn or stain on the carpet, a hole in the wall, a cracked mirror, a broken window, chips in the floor tiles, rip marks in fly screens etc., then I feel like that's the tenant's fault, regardless of whether they did it intentionally or by accident. I shouldn't have to pay to replace or repair because my tenants are clumsy.

    I feel like adults need to take responsibility for themselves. I don't understand why people think landlords are made of money and deserve to pay for damage caused by tenants. If people don't like being careful or looking after someone else's property then they should buy their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoopuf View Post

    I feel like adults need to take responsibility for themselves. I don't understand why people think landlords are made of money and deserve to pay for damage caused by tenants. If people don't like being careful or looking after someone else's property then they should buy their own.
    This, we take great pride in our home and also our investment properties. I don't mind people causing minor issues but the thought of people dragging cupboards, gouging holes in skirting boards etc makes my blood boil. We are all grown ups and should know to take care of things even if they aren't our own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticFalls View Post
    Some I agree with.


    But what if you had a really big fridge? And it scraped the door jam a little??

    If I owned a place to rent out I would expect this.

    If you don't want something like that I wouldn't rent it out. I would move in.

    Cause sometimes no matter how careful your removalists are things still happen. People don't mean to cause this, it's part n parcel of having people move in and out your home.

    We haven't done these things just asking
    No it's not, we have on average a tenant move in and out every week in our office, we'd be lucky to get 1 a year do any damage moving ( in 25 years I've had 1 removalist break part of the kitchen bench off when he dropped the fridge on it , we sued the company on behalf of the landlords and they got the company to replace the entire bench )


 

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