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  1. #251
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    Default For those not sure about having a third....

    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I think Tess is beautiful, just as Judd is. But she is very similar to Bec in heaps of ways. The fact one would be considered underweight and the other obese doesn't change anything, they both come across a bit obsessed with themselves.
    They are both obsessed with their appearances.

    But it's not OK because Tess would make other large women feel proud of their bodies?
    Last edited by Sonja; 03-10-2016 at 22:03.

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I am saddened you don't see the same potential for individual and societal damage that I do when women focus on and/or make a living from physical appearances and branding. I am concerned that you and others have been unable to scratch below the surface and see the bigger picture - the potential harm to young women of such individuals (who are probably lovely people) being put forward as role models.
    I agree and am surprised that anyone feels sad that you don't enjoy the beauty industry and all that it entails.

    I've done quite an about face in recent times with my approach to my appearance. I made the decision to put in as much effort as the majority of men do. I was so bound up in the idea that to be seen as professional I must wear makeup. Why???? So I made the (what felt to me like) brave decision to stop wearing makeup to work. I was teaching 12 year olds at the time, telling them to remove their makeup as it wasn't allowed and that "they didn't need it to look beautiful anyhow", yet there was I with my mascara on. So I decided to opt out, to step off the beauty industry train.

    Don't feel sad for me. It has been such a liberating decision. I actually now feel sad for all the women spending 5-90 minutes a day "putting their face on" unable to save for a house deposit because they are in love with the clinique range at a gazillion bucks a pop. (Or handbags - I kid you not I have a DINKS friend who could be a property tycoon if she'd invested all the money she has spent on handbags).

    I feel sad that women say "I wear makeup for me, because it makes me feel good" but don't analyse the layering of social conditioning that has led her to feel good by altering her facial appearance. The time and money diverted away from more meaningful pursuits - it genuinely handicaps us. And we don't even realise it.

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  4. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    They are both completely obsessed with their appearances.
    Is it an obsession with appearance or self expression though?

  5. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretched View Post
    I agree and am surprised that anyone feels sad that you don't enjoy the beauty industry and all that it entails.

    I've done quite an about face in recent times with my approach to my appearance. I made the decision to put in as much effort as the majority of men do. I was so bound up in the idea that to be seen as professional I must wear makeup. Why???? So I made the (what felt to me like) brave decision to stop wearing makeup to work. I was teaching 12 year olds at the time, telling them to remove their makeup as it wasn't allowed and that "they didn't need it to look beautiful anyhow", yet there was I with my mascara on. So I decided to opt out, to step off the beauty industry train.

    Don't feel sad for me. It has been such a liberating decision. I actually now feel sad for all the women spending 5-90 minutes a day "putting their face on" unable to save for a house deposit because they are in love with the clinique range at a gazillion bucks a pop. (Or handbags - I kid you not I have a DINKS friend who could be a property tycoon if she'd invested all the money she has spent on handbags).

    I feel sad that women say "I wear makeup for me, because it makes me feel good" but don't analyse the layering of social conditioning that has led her to feel good by altering her facial appearance. The time and money diverted away from more meaningful pursuits - it genuinely handicaps us. And we don't even realise it.
    Out of curiosity (genuine not trying to be a smart ****) have to researched the history of make up? I know everyone on here sees it as the denigration of women but I'm not entirely convinced that's where it came from.

  6. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Out of curiosity (genuine not trying to be a smart ****) have to researched the history of make up? I know everyone on here sees it as the denigration of women but I'm not entirely convinced that's where it came from.
    No I haven't but I've watched enough period dramas to know it was historically used as much by men as women.

    That is pretty much irrelevant though when looking at society in its current form. I'm not saying this is about men having a secret plot to hold women back through new covert strategies such as makeup. In fact it is more a case of women now being their own worst enemy when it comes to gender equality on some fronts.

  7. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretched View Post
    No I haven't but I've watched enough period dramas to know it was historically used as much by men as women.

    That is pretty much irrelevant though when looking at society in its current form. I'm not saying this is about men having a secret plot to hold women back through new covert strategies such as makeup. In fact it is more a case of women now being their own worst enemy when it comes to gender equality on some fronts.
    I don't disagree. But it's interesting because my frustration is with strength. 2 years ago I decided I was sick of being physically weaker so started crossfit. I now train 5 times a week, do hot yoga twice a week and Pilates once a week. That's my way of showing my 3 daughters I can be strong.

    I don't feel sad though for women who choose to not strength train. That would be ridiculous. I find it an odd choice of words to say you feel sad for women who wear make up.

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  9. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinklify View Post
    I am the same - I also follow lots of makeup people.

    I think for me is I love the beauty of the photography. The clothes. The makeup transformations. Even models poses. To me that is so beautiful. It does not make me feel bad about myself - it makes me love life and the beauty in it.
    This is exactly how I feel! I could have written this

  10. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Bc how she looked spoke to a much deeper concerning issue for some - the pressure for women to look perfect every moment of their lives, even post birth, and how they argued it was almost dishonest on some level. I'm not sure I would have gone that far. But to me, people weren't criticising her skinniness or the make up she was wearing per say. It was the messages it sends given she is a celeb.

    Does that make sense or am I just blubbering? haha
    I think many of us are actually for the same issue, just approaching it in different ways. I believe in a past thread you called it 'old school feminism' and 'new wave feminism.' I've had an eating disorder before, of course I believe in a message of teaching girls to love themselves. And I'm not into the trend of selfies. But I also believe in choice and respect for all women and that feminism is about respecting other women's choices, bodies, ideals, etc. You have a choice to not be interested or to look. I haven't felt any of the harsh comments on here have been coming from jealousy or because somebody is 'fat.' I think the comments come from an automatic stereotype, that if a woman focuses too much on her looks then she's not worthy of respect and must be an 'idiot.' I personally feel it's just as bad for women to constantly be taking jabs at each other when it's not really necessary, I see that as setting us backwards. And yes I think it's sad that a photo being posted announcing babies in a thread about if you are scared about having twins as a third pregnancy took a turn into discussing somebody's looks.

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  12. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I am saddened you don't see the same potential for individual and societal damage that I do when women focus on and/or make a living from physical appearances and branding. I am concerned that you and others have been unable to scratch below the surface and see the bigger picture - the potential harm to young women of such individuals (who are probably lovely people) being put forward as role models.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stretched View Post
    I agree and am surprised that anyone feels sad that you don't enjoy the beauty industry and all that it entails.
    I am not sure if this applies to me. If so I think you misunderstood what I said.

    It makes me sad that people name call, insult, shame other women/men for having a career that is in beauty. It is the behaviour and actions that make me sad. It doesn't make me sad that they do not like the beauty industry. I do not expect everyone to. Everyone has different values and that is fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    I think many of us are actually for the same issue, just approaching it in different ways. I believe in a past thread you called it 'old school feminism' and 'new wave feminism.' I've had an eating disorder before, of course I believe in a message of teaching girls to love themselves. And I'm not into the trend of selfies. But I also believe in choice and respect for all women and that feminism is about respecting other women's choices, bodies, ideals, etc. You have a choice to not be interested or to look. I haven't felt any of the harsh comments on here have been coming from jealousy or because somebody is 'fat.' I think the comments come from an automatic stereotype, that if a woman focuses too much on her looks then she's not worthy of respect and must be an 'idiot.' I personally feel it's just as bad for women to constantly be taking jabs at each other when it's not really necessary, I see that as setting us backwards. And yes I think it's sad that a photo being posted announcing babies in a thread about if you are scared about having twins as a third pregnancy took a turn into discussing somebody's looks.
    This. You are saying it so much better than me.


 

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