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  1. #1001
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    @Sue77, I'm so sorry hon. I have no words

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  3. #1002
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    @Sue77 I have wondered more than once how you were going. I am very sorry to hear of your loss. To get to that stage and not get your thb is not frucken fair.

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  5. #1003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sue77 View Post
    Hello my dear friends… I hope some of you will be able to still recognize me. I haven’t been online from the past 9 months, so I am sorry at this sage I don’t know what is happening in everybodys life.
    But I would like to share some thoughts about my journey as I am finding it too hard to cope up all by myself. So Here I go
    After my 14th cycle (stimulated +frozen) did not work in Dec, we decided to go the surrogacy route as all doctors were saying different things…. LB, NL, Dr M, Wazza… have consulted them all and I must say, Wazza was the best out of all in giving true advice. He said you can keep on trying as much as you want, its you as a couple who needs to decide when to stop, and if you have all the resources to try surrogacy, then no harm as I have had a major brain surgery in between all these ivfs and took a break for 2 years and then continued and I have tried way too many cycles even with pgd embryos, immune protocol, intralipids etc.. (But not the very extreme ones which some other girls have done) as I have done enough harm to my body.
    So we started looking for options and found Ukraine to be in our reach and it is totally legal. We went to Ukraine to check out the clinics. Most of the clinics there have combined packages of donor egg+ surrogacy with a certain number of attempts etc and most of the ladies were over 45, close to 50 who had tried everything else. There were clients mostly from all of Europe and the US. When we saw the doctor in the clinic that we chose, she said why don’t you do one cycle with your own eggs and if it does not work , we will move to donor eggs (as technically dh and I have not been diagnosed with any problem). I get many eggs , many normal embryos etc. I have heard things from senior doctors in Aus that the embryos might lose the puff, cosmic forces are against u and u need to go to the church more often etc etc etc…. as n body could do a proper diagnosis.
    So we did a cycle, and we got 3 pgd normal embryos out of that cycle, which was quite good for my age(39 at that time). They took their time and found the surrogate, and implanted 2 pgd normal embryos into her as 1 didn’t survive the thaw. And yes we got a positive hcg result. The hcg was 628 12dp5dt which the nurse said was excellent. So another 3 weeks of waiting for the 7 week scan and I got an email last week, that there was no heartbeat and the pregnancy was lost. I was shattered beyond words as you all can imagine.. I really don’t know the reason, they were pgd normal and were in a tested fertile womb surpassing all issues ….
    So now… things move really quickly in Ukraine unlike here… I got an email from the clinic that ae we ready to select our donor.. They sent us a list of profiles.. I know that the clinic is not going to make more money this way as now they will need to pay the donor etc… and their pay structure is very clear.. after transfer we don’t pay anything till the 12 week scan with oe/de…
    I just want to share that I am very very sad… and yes somewhere in my mind I was kind of ready for a de if I didn’t get any normal or if they didn’t work, but now the fact that it worked and then we lost it without any reason is giving me a lot of trouble to move on…. Can any of the girls who have had a DE experience or are thinking of going for it…. please share how is it and when and what made you move from OE to DE (ofcourse the urge to be a mum). Were you given a clear diagnosis that it was not going to work with OE or you chose that it is just enough( apart from the monetary reasons). I know it is a very personal decision but I just want to see what all of you lovelies would have done if you were in my shoes…. I am sorry for such a long post, but wanted to write my heart out as I haven’t stopped crying since last week.

    A big big hug from me .My simple advise is try everything & if it means donor egg so be it !

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  7. #1004
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    so sorry to hear, @Sue77. that's a rough time you've gone through.
    we decided on trying DE when the last of my OE didn't work and I'd passed 45 age limit so the clinics wouldn't let me cycle any more with OE. I'd been thinking about it in the back of my mind for a while - it took a while to sit right in my head. mostly after some research into epigenetics. good luck with your decision. perhaps taking a break to reset/regroup might help things clear for you a bit more

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  9. #1005
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    Here we go Girls....

    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/insight/t.../older-parents

    Gird your loins if you're going to watch it I say!!!!

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  11. #1006
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    @Sue77 oh my your story is so heart breaking. To get so close. You must be exhausted. Your courage gives me inspiration. Im not sure if i am at DE yet but im getting there fast as tbh i just cant ride the low % of success roller coaster any more. Also ive always believed in nurture vs nature. Good luck and

    Hi ladies.

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  13. #1007
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    @Sue77 big hugs hun xxx we are about to head down the de path. For me in particular cost and quality of embies was a big factor. Im a low responder hubby has severe mfi im 41 we dont get many embies. Ive recently had mc at 9 weeks prob due to poor quality embie. Ive also been there about a year ago with having no hb at the scan it is devestating. That also happened at our recent 9 week scan after the 7 week scan was perfect. We have a bio daughter who yook 6 stim cycles to fonceive. For us moving to de is the best way forward. Epigenetics is an amazing thing. I think you need to be ready in ourselves to do that. All the best xxx

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  15. #1008
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    @Sue77 welcome back i do remember you from the threads.

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  17. #1009
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    @LillyM I'm doing antagonist puregon 450/orgalutran and will start in around 10 days time so we'll be cycle buddies again! what dose menopur will you be on?

    I'm just reading up on splitting the dose as @BlondeinBrisvegas mentioned, Wazzas the only Fs ive heard of that does it but it makes sense for even growth.

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  19. #1010
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    @Sue77 ok so, im writing this in a matter of fact way but i have to preface it by saying it was not an easy transition. At my lowest point, i wished that i was dead. It was the scariest and hardest thing that has ever happened to me. So, im 36 and i transferred a total of 6 embryos through ivf. That was enough for me. It broke me. I dont know how you found the strength to go through what you have. If you can do all what you have already done, then you can definitely do the transition to de. This will be a bit of a ramble but I'll try to put 1 point in each paragraph:

    Ok so, one of the first things, is to rely on your emotions. In this modern world, we are often taught and encouraged to try to be rational with all decisions but there are some types of decisions which are actually better made by using your emotions. E.g. choosing something that is asthetically pleasing to you, e.g. choosing a paint colour or a piece of clothing. Ever tried to choose a paint colour? You see one instantly that you think 'i like that' but then you think, id better consider other colours and better think logically and practically etc... and after hours of thought and rationalising and looking at samples, you keep going back to the first one you originally saw and eventually you go with it. The point to this story is, sometimes when you're choosing or making decisions, your emotions do a better job than the rational part of your brain. So, when you think about doing another own egg cycle, what emotions do you feel? When you think about de, what emotions do you feel? For me, when i though about doing another oe cycle, i felt absolute terror, associated it with failure, i would tear up and imagined myself in the fetal position in a dungeon shaking my head and saying, " no, no, no, please dont make me do that again". When i thought about doing de, i felt hopeful, excited, nervous but much calmer and optimistic. That was a good guide. I used my emotions to help with the decision.

    Next point, any time 2 people decide to smash some dna together, no one can predict what will happen. Beautiful people have unattractive children, smart people have children with low iq, perfectly healthy people have disabled children, we have a child at our school who has 2 disabled severly mentally challenged parents and she is beautiful and intelligent, i see siblings that look nothing like each other and children from genetic parents that look nothing like either of their parents. So, i figure even if my dh and i use our generic material, there is no guarantee whatsoever about what a child we made would be like. So it doesnt matter to me whose dna we use because it doesnt guarantee anything.

    Sometimes perfectly healthy pgd normal in utero babies have other health problems that no one can control no matter whose eggs or sperm is used. I have a friend who had a perfect foetus. While he was being born, he got stuck and his oxygen was cut off for too long and he has severe cerebral palsy, cant speak, cant eat, cant walk, cant control his muscles, etc... He is 18 years old and his parents still get up in the middle of the night to change adult diapers.They love him fiercly. When i think about having a baby and my friend's circumstances, i stop thinking about that i want my baby to come from my egg. I just want my baby to not have cerebral palsy or any health issues that severly limit their quality of life. I couldnt care if my baby came out black, white, yellow, brown, blue eyed, brown eyed, attractive, highly intelligent etc... I just want them to be able to walk, speak, eat, fall in love, be independent etc... So, if someone said, you can have a baby from your own egg but they will have a severe disability or you can use someone else's egg and have a healthy child. Its an easy, instant decision. And as my piont above said, there's no guarantee anyway whether i use my eggs or someone else's.

    Next point, i look like my mum and people think me and my sister are twins but i am very different to everyone in my family in terms of values, beliefs and the way i think. Even though i have genetic/biological parents, i turned out very different to them and i feel like the odd one out in my family, so having genetic parents and being raised by them also doesnt guarantee they will be anything like you or your partner either.

    And, i also considered, so what if my child looks and is different to me. When i think of what i was like as a teenager, i hope any kid i have is bloody different to me ;-) If you try to choose a donor who has the same interests or personality as you, whose to say they will be like that anyway. At my school, i see kids that are gifted and talented at music or sports and their parents have no musical or sporting interests at all. I watch their parents faces at assemblies and sports carnivals, and they appear amazed by their kids and say things like, "i have no idea how or why they are like that or where they get that from". So, i used to dream of having a girl who liked to read, just like me. But who's to say that people who like to read are 'better' than those who don't. Maybe my kid would like sport and they would introduce me to a world i know nothing about and teach me to appreciate things id never been interested in before. Imagine if the world was full of people the same as you. It would suck and be dysfunctional and boring. Otfen the best, most meaningful and valuable relationships you make in life are with people who are different to you. They broaden your world and teach you to see things from different perspectives.

    And, have you ever gone to a wide expansive empty landscape or looked at a timeline of the age of this earth? You know when you get that feeling if how insignificant you, as an individual, really are? Well, i thought about my dna like that. Is my dna really the 'best' out of all the humans who've ever existed? Am i the smartest, kindest, most beautiful valuable, perfect example of a human? If they were to try and clone a perfect race of humans, would they choose me to clone? No. So, yeah, my dna was important to me at one stage but i actually realised, its no better than anyone else's. Im glad i learnt that. Who am i to say im a better human than anyone else?

    One day i was worrying, what if my child is really ugly? Then 5 seconds later, it occured to me, but what if they're stunningly beautiful, like way more beautiful than anything me and dh could produce? There's just as much chance of one as the other. Then i thought hang on, being beautiful, isnt necessarily a good thing. Liking who you are and accepting that is better than being beautiful. I know happy unattractive people and miserable attractive people. I want my child to have the same typical experiences, e.g. hating what you look like at 16 regardless of what you look like and not appreciating the beauty of youth , then by the time you're 30+ not really giving a flying fruck, realising you were beautiful all along and just liking yourself for who you are. I dont want my child to have a life where everything is perfect and easy coz they will grow up to be an a r s e h o l e. The struggles and troubles in our lives are what make us who we are. I thought about asking for a donor with double d boobs once coz mine are tiny and when i was younger i thought my life would be better if my boobs were bigger. Now i like them small. So i realised i dont want to be responsible for designing a person. Im not qualified! I dont know what to choose. I dont think any human i tried to design would be as good as what the 'universe' would make for me. When i look at my cats, i dont think if only you were more brown, if only your marking were more symmetrical, if only you were bigger, if only your tail was 10cm longer, if only you liked chicken more than fish, then i would love you more. I just went to get them from the pound and as soon as i saw them and knew they were 'mine', i loved them. I think getting a baby thats mine to love will feel the same.

    Ive also never heard of anyone who had a de baby, who said they didn't love their baby as soon as they knew it existed. I have heard of ladies that had birthed their own genetic children that felt detached or disconnected to them for whatever reason. The de ladies who's stories ive read say they just wished they had have done the donor thing sooner, like years ago and saved themselves a lot of time, money and heartache.

    So, i realised that i didnt actually want to have 'my own' child, as much as i just wanted to be a mum. Being a mum entails having no idea what your child will be like, having no guarantees about any aspect of their appearance, personality, life or future. Its about being amazed by the ways they are or arent like you. Its about looking at them and thinking you are better than anything i could have imagined. Its about forming a relationship and so, i figured i could have everything that being a mum entailed, regardless of whose eggs or dna they came from.

    I also had a moment where i realised i was glad i didnt have a bazillion dollars because if i did, id probably still be trying oe and it would actually have made it so much harder to transition if money wasnt an issue. Im actually greatful that finances have put limits and restrictions on my decisions. It forced me to transition or give up altogether.

    So... these are all the things i can think of at the moment, that helped me to move on to de. I really hope this helps and if you have any other thoughts about anything that i havent mentioned, ive probably thought them too and worked through them or maybe i havent and your questions will help me too. if you want to ask anything else, please do.

    Your journey so far truly astounds me and i am in awe of how you have been able to endure what you have. You are the most warrior-y ivf warrior woman i have ever had the pleasure to meet. xox
    Last edited by gorgeousgeorge; 20-09-2016 at 21:37.

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