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    Quote Originally Posted by Sally1981 View Post
    Just saw this. I realise you don't want to open up a can of worms but as someone who had a TFMR at 22 weeks I feel I need to respond.

    TFMR is not just an abortion. For a start, most parents at least want an amnio to properly confirm the diagnosis, which makes you at least 15 weeks, which means you're going to have to attend a labour ward at a hospital, get induced like a live birth, go through labour, then deliver your child. If you're really unlucky (like I was), nothing will show up until the 19 week scan. My boy was born alive and died in my arms three hours later. This is a million miles away from an abortion for gender reasons.

    One thing no one understands until they've been through it is that TFMR is a parenting decision. Many people who have done this are people who previously said they never would. That's largely because, once you start going down that long, dark rabbit hole it becomes clear that for many of these conditions, you are going to have to make the decision at some stage. For conditions that are not compatible with life you first have to decide whether to continue with the pregnancy. If you do, you will then be asked whether you want medical intervention to keep them alive after birth. If you say yes, you will need to keep making that decision over and over again until one day you make the decision to withdraw treatment and let your child die. So in the end, you've had to be the one to call it anyway.

    I made that choice at 22 weeks because my boy was likely going to die no matter what I did. I researched everything I could and made the decision at that stage because in two weeks time he would start to form the ability to feel pain and I wanted to spare him that.

    So yes, comparing someone undergoing TFMR to someone aborting a healthy baby due to their gender is upsetting. Very few people who have ever been in the situation where they had to 'choose' ever judge each other for making the opposite choice.
    Beautifully said. TFMR is a parenting decision based on love and in the best interests of a much wanted child and not a selfish decision to get the gender you desire.

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  3. #242
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    Default Should gender selection for non medical reasons be legal in Australia

    I am insulted by those that have said they believe those who are in favour of gender selection are mentally unwell.

    I respect others opinions in saying it is not something they would do and they do not believe in it. I have not insulted you or had a go at yr opinions. They are your opinions after all.

    But why insult others who have a different opinion., walk in different shoes and remove their right to choose if they wish to go down the path of gender selection, My body., my choice.
    Last edited by kylie764; 24-05-2016 at 03:05.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kylie764 View Post
    I am insulted by those that have said they believe those who are in favour of gender selection are mentally unwell.

    I respect others opinions in saying it is not something they would do and they do not believe in it. I have not insulted you or had a go at yr opinions. They are your opinions after all.

    But why insult others who have a different opinion., walk in different shoes and remove their right to choose if they wish to go down the path of gender selection, My body., my choice.
    I don't think that's what anyone has said. I think they are saying that if your GD is so severe that there are obviously underlying psychological issues that also need addressing. Especially if you have a preconceived idea of what you want from the child and how you would cope if that child did not live up to your expectations.

    Many people have expressed how their GD has affected their mental wellbeing (not necessarily in this thread but on bh in general).

    I have my sister visiting at the moment and she told me yesterday that our cousin has outright said she hates her 2yo daughter because she is a girl (has 3 boys also) and can't bond or relate to her. Her GD is very real and I think that if it's to the point where you hate your child then the state of your mental health needs accessing and you need professional help to work through it.

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    I am pro-choice when it comes to abortion, and yes, in this instance it is "my body, my choice".

    But I don't see how that same argument is applicable in any way to pre-implantation gender selection. Said embryo could claim "my gender, my right to exist".

    To be pregnant by choice IS the choice.

    Sent from my SM-N910G using The Bub Hub mobile app

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    Quote Originally Posted by kylie764 View Post
    I am insulted by those that have said they believe those who are in favour of gender selection are mentally unwell.

    I respect others opinions in saying it is not something they would do and they do not believe in it. I have not insulted you or had a go at yr opinions. They are your opinions after all.

    But why insult others who have a different opinion., walk in different shoes and remove their right to choose if they wish to go down the path of gender selection, My body., my choice.
    agree with the PP...the choice to become pregnant is your choice. your baby is not your body, therefore I do not believe it is your choice.

    I personally do not understand GD. I think any happy healthy child is a gift and to me, to be upset that you got a child of the gender you didn't want, well it just seems mighty ungrateful. I obviously do not comprehend the ramifications of GD though.

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    I think the biggest misconception is that you are disappointed with what you got. It's more you're disappointed with what you didn't get if that makes sense? Having a girl and two boys, I will say that whilst all my children are different, there is also quite a difference between the sexes. Both are wonderful, and I am so thankful that I am able able to experience both because that was very important to me. It's wonderful if you're happy with whatever genders you get, because I wouldn't wish GD on anyone. It's a lonely place to be.

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    And also, although I wholeheartedly support PGD for gender selection in Australia, I wouldn't say it's a "my body my choice" situation but I know what PP means. To me it's more about defining what your reproductive rights are and whether you should be able to access technology that doesn't seem less ethically muddy than what is already legal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ngaiz View Post
    I don't think that's what anyone has said. I think they are saying that if your GD is so severe that there are obviously underlying psychological issues that also need addressing. Especially if you have a preconceived idea of what you want from the child and how you would cope if that child did not live up to your expectations.
    I think this is where people have landed - which is good. But if you scroll back there were definitely some quips about people being unwell to even consider it.

    Sadly, I feel like this is almost a moot point with NIPTs being able to identity sex at 10 weeks. If someone is unwell enough to terminate due to sex (and I'll concede I think someone who does that IS mentally unwell) - they can do it now.

    And it's likely NOT someone who has gone through IVF. 1) Most people who have struggled with infertility would be over the moon with any healthy child - irrespective if they had a preference for one sex; 2) it would be too expensive for most; and 3) I think a FS would clue in eventually.

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  17. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylie764 View Post
    I am insulted by those that have said they believe those who are in favour of gender selection are mentally unwell.

    I respect others opinions in saying it is not something they would do and they do not believe in it. I have not insulted you or had a go at yr opinions. They are your opinions after all.

    But why insult others who have a different opinion., walk in different shoes and remove their right to choose if they wish to go down the path of gender selection, My body., my choice.
    Nobody has said that at all.

    People have said that sever Gender Disappointment CAN be a mental health disorder, and people who have a termination based on gender alone are perhaps suffering from severe cases of this.

    People are simply trying to get others to understand more the issues of gender disappointment and how those people feel.


    For the record - I support gender selection - am not mentally unwell - and have never suffered gender disappointment

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    Quote Originally Posted by BH-KatiesMum View Post
    Nobody has said that at all.
    Nah, they did. Clipped quotes below. As I said previously, I think people have landed at a less extreme view and we can all agree that severe GD needs to be addressed. But to lump everyone with any GD into the mentally unwell bucket is unfair.

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    What if it's just a band-aid though? If the underlying issues aren't addressed they may still bubble to the surface down the track. Wouldn't it be in the child's best interests to (if possible) have underlying issues (that lead to unfair and unrealistic expectations) dealt with before the child is conceived?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    With my armchair psychologists hat on I'd hazard a guess in its severe forms it's a form of depression. It's one thing to desire a boy or girl baby but to actively spend thousands of $$ making it happen or fear you won't cope with the outcome to me that is a type of psychological problem. Or to have an abortion because the baby is the wrong sex. Or to not truly feel you could care for a baby of a certain sex.


    But to me all of those feelings are completely irrational. I truly don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sally1981 View Post
    This is a really interesting thread. I have to say though that I'm getting more inclined to say it should be illegal for non medical reasons. This is a real disorder by the sounds of things and should therefore be treated by professionals for the sake of the children.

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