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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    Eta - sorry, just read the reply above. I'm sorry for your loss. Absolutely no judgement on people who have had terminations for DS or other reasons. I just do find it such a slippery slope. I feel like I am both 100% pro choice, but also 100% valuing a human life, no matter what. Which doesn't work, because I can't be both. No-one can. I guess if you are truly 100% pro choice,terminating for gender reasons is ok because it is the mothers choice no matter what.
    This is where I get to as well. I have 3 daughters and for their sake I have to be 100% pro choice. Statistically most late term abortions are sought by teenage girls who either don't know they're pregnant until it's late or are too shamed and in denial about it.

    So if I have to be pro choice then I have to respect any reason behind an abortion. I don't have to like it and I'd rather not know but I can't be the one to say it's not ok.

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  3. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    Eta - sorry, just read the reply above. I'm sorry for your loss. Absolutely no judgement on people who have had terminations for DS or other reasons. I just do find it such a slippery slope. I feel like I am both 100% pro choice, but also 100% valuing a human life, no matter what. Which doesn't work, because I can't be both. No-one can. I guess if you are truly 100% pro choice,terminating for gender reasons is ok because it is the mothers choice no matter what.
    That's ok I didn't take your comment as judgmental. Everyone has an idea of what they would do in these situations. My main issue with the post by Stretched is the implication that prenatal testing is an issue. DS is one thing but many trisomies are not compatible with life and I don't see what society could possibly gain through that kind of genetic diversity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    This is where I get to as well. I have 3 daughters and for their sake I have to be 100% pro choice. Statistically most late term abortions are sought by teenage girls who either don't know they're pregnant until it's late or are too shamed and in denial about it.

    So if I have to be pro choice then I have to respect any reason behind an abortion. I don't have to like it and I'd rather not know but I can't be the one to say it's not ok.
    Actually, statistically, late term abortions are overwhelmingly for foetal anomaly. I personally couldn't see myself terminating a healthy pregnancy, but like you, I would never take away someone's choice to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    This is where I get to as well. I have 3 daughters and for their sake I have to be 100% pro choice. Statistically most late term abortions are sought by teenage girls who either don't know they're pregnant until it's late or are too shamed and in denial about it.

    So if I have to be pro choice then I have to respect any reason behind an abortion. I don't have to like it and I'd rather not know but I can't be the one to say it's not ok.
    Yes absolutely, and this is where I struggle. If I was truly 100% pro choice, it means I have to be ok with someone terminating a perfectly healthy 39 week gestation 3.5kg foetus because of gender. Or any reason. Which I just can't feel ok with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sally1981 View Post
    . DS is one thing but many trisomies are not compatible with life and I don't see what society could possibly gain through that kind of genetic diversity.
    .
    My friend was told her DS baby would not survive more than a few hours or days after the birth. He has other chromosomal issues that contributed too though. He is now a healthy & thriving 1 year old. He smiles, waves hello and claps his hands I guess I struggle with the idea of 'incompatible with life' because it is often a best guess, and isnt always true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    I guess if you are truly 100% pro choice,terminating for gender reasons is ok because it is the mothers choice no matter what.
    If you are not going to stop someone or guilt someone out of a termination then I would consider that 100% pro choice.

    It is not a choice you will make for you and you do not agree with the choice of why BUT you believe someone should have that choice.

    Its so grey but that is how I see being pro choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    My friend was told her DS baby would not survive more than a few hours or days after the birth. He has other chromosomal issues that contributed too though. He is now a healthy & thriving 1 year old. He smiles, waves hello and claps his hands I guess I struggle with the idea of 'incompatible with life' because it is often a best guess, and isnt always true.
    With a wonderful story like that it's not surprising you feel that way. That's a very rare outcome. In almost all of these cases where the doctors say that, they turn out to be right. It's strange. I know quite a few people now who received terrible news at pregnancy scans that resulted in the death of their baby. Some terminated, some didn't. Both sides tend to question their decisions at some point after the fact. It's a terrible situation with no right answer unfortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    Yes absolutely, and this is where I struggle. If I was truly 100% pro choice, it means I have to be ok with someone terminating a perfectly healthy 39 week gestation 3.5kg foetus because of gender. Or any reason. Which I just can't feel ok with.
    I don't see that as pro choice. A 39 week old baby can live outside the uterus. That's not something I can accept yet still I am pro choice.

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  13. #228
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    Default Should gender selection for non medical reasons be legal in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    My friend was told her DS baby would not survive more than a few hours or days after the birth. He has other chromosomal issues that contributed too though. He is now a healthy & thriving 1 year old. He smiles, waves hello and claps his hands I guess I struggle with the idea of 'incompatible with life' because it is often a best guess, and isnt always true.
    I think we need to be very careful with posts like this. Sally1981 has laid out a very raw story. I know in her position if I read this I would see it as challenging that decision which I don't think you mean to do.

    Perhaps this is a good discussion for another thread?

    Edit I saw her response which was measured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I don't see that as pro choice. A 39 week old baby can live outside the uterus. That's not something I can accept yet still I am pro choice.
    Me too.

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    This whole area is such a minefield. I've been reading along with this thread but haven't commented yet because I can't really figure out where I sit!

    On one hand, I had to do IVF to conceive my DD - I spent some time not knowing if I'd ever get pregnant so I see my DD as my greatest blessing, and I would feel exactly the same had she been a boy. I can't really imagine why anyone would willingly subject themselves to the whole awful IVF process if they didn't need to. But then if I had the option of knowing the sex of my remaining embryos, when it comes time to try for baby number two, I'd probably ask for my girl embryos to be put back first - mainly because I have an awesome relationship with my sister and I'd love for my DD to experience the same thing, plus I want to have the chance to reuse her gorgeous girly stuff she grew out of too quickly! But if they didn't work, I'd happily try the boy ones too. Obviously I don't have that option so I won't be doing that and I'll be overjoyed if I'm ever able to bring a second baby into the world, regardless of gender. But then if I think it would be OK for me to do it because I'm already doing IVF anyway, why then wouldn't it be ok for someone else to do IVF for that purpose? It's their body after all and if they want to go through the whole process why should I stop them?

    I think it's the willingness to discard perfectly good embryos that doesn't sit right with me. To me, it's so hard to create those little embies in the first place, I can't imagine just discarding unwanted ones. But I don't think forced donation of unwanted embryos is right either.

    This makes my brain hurt. I'm so glad I'm not the one responsible for making this decision!!


 

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