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  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I see where you are going with the example. However I don't think Gender disappointment is in the same league as chronic fatigue and hence I feel less empathetic towards those parents. Maybe I need to do some more reading into gender disappointment - at the moment I have some preconceived notions about it being a label slapped on a conglomerate of other issues rather than a stand alone medical condition.
    I wouldn't class gender disappointment a medical condition (unless I read your point wrong).

    I don't consider my situation to really be one of extreme gender disappointment.

    Someone touched on it before and I think calling it 'disappointment' does not make it easier to understand. It is grief. Just like if you want another baby or any baby and you cannot have one at all due to medical/financial issues. Except in this case it is not 'a' baby it is a boy or a girl baby.

    Maybe this is just because early in life we may have an idea of what life will be like in x amount of years. And in that idea/dream we may see a boy or a girl etc etc. It is an idea you grew up with for years. It is precious to you. And if it can't happen or does not happen you mourn the loss. And there will always feel like something is missing.

    I am not trying to force you to change your mind here. It is always hard to understand unless you go through it. I thought maybe it might help you see why someone makes that choice - whether it be right or wrong I cannot say because I do not know.

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  3. #172
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    With my armchair psychologists hat on I'd hazard a guess in its severe forms it's a form of depression. It's one thing to desire a boy or girl baby but to actively spend thousands of $$ making it happen or fear you won't cope with the outcome to me that is a type of psychological problem. Or to have an abortion because the baby is the wrong sex. Or to not truly feel you could care for a baby of a certain sex.

    But to me all of those feelings are completely irrational. I truly don't get it.

    I was looking on some of the US IVF sites and it's clear couples going down this path have counselling so hopefully that helps.

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  5. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by babybeeno1 View Post
    The test cost about $600 I think it is. It is really only suppose to be used to detect abnormalities in chromosomes 21, 18, 13 and the X & Y chromosomes. It is from 10 weeks but your scans if you have them through your OB would have to put you in the high risk category first to even be able to do the test as its sent to the US for analysis then results returned back here to your doctor but there are clinics that will do the testing upfront even without an OB. It is sad but true people would do this just to have a particular sex child. I know of someone who has just had their 4th child it was a girl she already has 3 boys and she clearly stated to us all if it was another boy she would of terminated. Then there is myself who has struggled with infertility my entire life (so has my sister) and we are thankful for the couple of children we do have between us
    Quote Originally Posted by KitiK View Post
    This isn't entirely correct in my experience. I requested the test and was provided access to it. No invasive questions and no overt concerns which would have indicated it was necessary. I wanted it, its my out of pocket - $600ish maybe less) my OB was happy to write the pathology request. My test was obviosuly to check for trisomies but I also requested I be advised of the sex, so either way I could prepare. Test at 10weeks, shipped to the US and I got results in 7 days from recall.
    Same. My OB asked if I wanted the test, I said yes, she wrote the referral. I had the test at 10 weeks, and it took 4 days to get results.

    My reason for having the test, and having it so early, was purely so that I could have as long as possible to deal with the results, whatever they may be. I wouldn't have terminated based on sex, I find that idea absolutely abhorrent (for non medical reasons). But if it was a girl I just wanted to have as long as possible to get used to the idea and maybe even to seek counselling about it, before bub was born. I'd hate for my hang ups and issues about gender to negatively affect my child, so wanted to have time to process it and develop a positive mindset about it.

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  7. #174
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    I totally agree with you @Sonja and @VicPark also made that point (I forgot to address that in my last post too).

    I think counselling is required. I think if Australia decides to allow this it should be with counselling first.

    My guess is that with the proper help people can understand that feeling/desire, accept it and move on.

    I also do wonder if this is driven by 1 person in the relationship or 2. Surely if you decided to terminate a pregnancy due to gender then if only 1 person in the relationship had severe gender disappointment how would something like a termination affect the other person who does not have this?

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  9. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by babybeeno1 View Post
    The test cost about $600 I think it is. It is really only suppose to be used to detect abnormalities in chromosomes 21, 18, 13 and the X & Y chromosomes. It is from 10 weeks but your scans if you have them through your OB would have to put you in the high risk category first to even be able to do the test as its sent to the US for analysis then results returned back here to your doctor but there are clinics that will do the testing upfront even without an OB. It is sad but true people would do this just to have a particular sex child. I know of someone who has just had their 4th child it was a girl she already has 3 boys and she clearly stated to us all if it was another boy she would of terminated. Then there is myself who has struggled with infertility my entire life (so has my sister) and we are thankful for the couple of children we do have between us
    The test is $450. You don't need to be classed as high risk at all. It's a test you can request if you want it, and your OB will probably recommend it if you're over 35. There are now clinics who process the test in Australia, it's not necessarily sent to the US.

    We've ticked the box to find out gender, just because we want to know. We don't care which gender it is.

    As for people being able to select gender, I think as long as it's not paid for by Medicare, then why not.

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  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinklify View Post
    I totally agree with you @Sonja and @VicPark also made that point (I forgot to address that in my last post too).

    I think counselling is required. I think if Australia decides to allow this it should be with counselling first.

    My guess is that with the proper help people can understand that feeling/desire, accept it and move on.

    I also do wonder if this is driven by 1 person in the relationship or 2. Surely if you decided to terminate a pregnancy due to gender then if only 1 person in the relationship had severe gender disappointment how would something like a termination affect the other person who does not have this?
    It would be. You can't do ART here without counselling but this should go further than the usual counselling.

    As an aside I recall my mother telling me years ago when she worked as a midwife in north Qld some of the hospitals / obstetricians wouldn't allow women of certain cultural backgrounds to have testing to find out the gender as when it first became available if the sex wasn't what they wanted the mother would sometimes return a week later having falling down the stairs and would miscarry.

    It sounds awfully racist now but it was the knee jerk reaction when gender testing became possible, so this isn't a new issue.

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  13. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    . You can't do ART here without counselling but this should go further than the usual counselling.
    .
    We didn't have to do counselling before starting IVF. They offer one free counselling session per cycle,but you certainly don't have to take them up on it and we didn't.

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  15. #178
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    I think it's only if you're using donor gametes that counselling is required. And maybe genetic counselling if you need PGS or PGD.

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    Default Should gender selection for non medical reasons be legal in Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by rainbow road View Post
    I think it's only if you're using donor gametes that counselling is required. And maybe genetic counselling if you need PGS or PGD.
    We had counselling 11 years ago. No donors involved. It was compulsory back then.
    Last edited by Sonja; 22-05-2016 at 16:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I see where you are going with the example. However I don't think Gender disappointment is in the same league as chronic fatigue and hence I feel less empathetic towards those parents. Maybe I need to do some more reading into gender disappointment - at the moment I have some preconceived notions about it being a label slapped on a conglomerate of other issues rather than a stand alone medical condition.
    Yes look it's not a fab example, but I'm basically trying to say that it doesn't help anyone to say well you should be grateful because it could be worse for xyz reasons. You could say that about any hardship you experience in your life. House falling apart? Well at least your aren't homeless. Job giving you the sh*ts, well at least you aren't unemployed! Baby not sleeping through the night and your tired as all hell, don't complain you should be grateful that you HAVE a child when other people can't. You get my point. Just because you don't think GD is a valid thing, or something you can't comprehend, doesn't mean it isn't real to those experiencing it. And I think it was Sonja that thought it was probably like a depression, and I'd say yes it probably is. People can become depressed because they aren't happy with aspects of their life, doesn't always have to be because of something that you think is a big deal.

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