Not every child will sleep

[HollyGolightly81]

I've been scanning through the link A-squared posted and found this. Although she gives tips to hopefully help reduce nightmares, I take from it that it's normal for older children to wake from nightmares and require an adult's help in getting back to sleep

"Throughout many children's lives there are times when their sleep is disturbed because of nightmares, night terrors or sleepwalking. These can be frightening for children and a worry for parents.
Toddlers are at an age where they are particularly prone to nightmares. They are most likely to happen in between 3-6 years of age although they can happen at any age. This is because they have a lot more dream sleep (REM sleep) than adults do and so have essentially more opportunity to have them.
What are nightmares?

Nightmares are frightening dreams which most children have at some time or other. On waking from a nightmare, children will usually tell you what has frightened them. Lots of children wake and think that what they have dreamt is real. With comfort they can usually return to sleep. Toddlers particularly find it hard to tell whether their dream is real or not.
What causes nightmares?

All dreaming, including nightmares are linked with things that happened during the day. Sleep researchers believe that dreams are actually the brain working through information that we have learnt or seen during the day. However, because we are unconscious when we dream, the images and stories in dreams often don’t make sense.
Dreams and nightmares are normal ways for people to deal with their worries and to draw our attention to them. As children gain confidence in dealing with the problems of growing up, nightmares tend to get less.
Nightmares can increase when we are stressed or worried. If they are happening a lot to your toddler, think about what is going on in your child's life. For example, has there been a recent upset in the family (break-in, death, loss of job, parents arguing)? Has there been a recent change in their lives like starting child care, school, going to hospital or parents starting work.
In 3-6 year of age range children develop a vivid imagination in their day time play and sometimes have nightmares about monsters and robbers.
Tips for parents :

• Be comforting and calm when your toddler has a nightmare. Consider staying with them a little linger after the nightmare.
• Telling them the dreams is not real often is to difficult for your toddler to understand so sometimes this is not helpful.
• Bedroom doors can be left open and a night light left on.
• It often helps the child to talk about it, but try not to get into long talks in the middle of the night.
• If the dream is often about the same thing (a monster) or has the same ending( a robber coming into the house), discuss with your toddler how they could change their dream so it ends happily . For example, tell the minster to go away, or make the monster laugh.
• TV and video games can be powerful triggers which disturb children's sleep. Carefully choose what programs your children watch. Make sure they do not watch these things close to bedtime.
• Turn off adult TV when your toddler is in the room. Even when they are not “watching’ they still absorb that information and that can be very scary for them.
• Make sure bedtime routines are calm and loving and make sure your toddler feels safe and secure in their bedroom.
• Evening routines are often helpful in settling children into bed. Wind down the day's activities e.g. with a bath, story, talk with a parents, tuck into bed and goodnight hug."

http://www.snoozeforkids.com/index.php/faq

[A-Squared]

And one final note on the point of this thread. Even if it wasn't patently clear from the OP surely the number of people who have posted in the past 24 hours to share war stories and take comfort from the company of others should guide what the thread is about? Otherwise what is the point in sharing if you only get told if you just try a little bit harder you can fix it.

And isn't this a bit like the thread started a while back about whether people regret having children? No one there wanted to be told everything would be ok and they would feel better one day.

I just see them as very similar.

The intention it seems it is. As you said you weren't clear enough in your OP.

I knew when starting my thread - the one you mention above - I had in my mind clear reasons for starting the thread and stated them in the OP to set the scene.

I didn't do a spin off not to derail the other thread or in argument of any comments in that thread, it was as I said something I was passionate about.

Your OP and posts in the thread you spun off from were basically arguing with VP that her views were wrong, not backed up by research, etc etc and you wanted to put forward your opinion on the topic matter. That in itself is an invitation for her and other like minded (whether partially or wholeheartedly) people to say, hang on a minute, I don't agree.

It's almost like tapping someone on the shoulder and saying oi, you're a old smelly horrible person and running off in the other direction so you force them to have no right of reply.

Anyway I'm barking up the wrong tree here, preaching to the deaf when it comes to sleep threads. Don't know why I bother trying to stick up for the minority or playing devils advocate.

As I said I'm a do what works for your family kind of person and if you're happy in your family to put your kids into the 'they're just a bad sleeper and there's nothing I can do' category whilst I think that mostly there's *probably* something you *might be* able to do, I do actually respect your decision to be at peace with the sleep situations you find yourselves in and embracing them rather than trying to fix them.

Equally I'm just as respectful if you want to change your child's sleep and you want to do it gently, or slowly or using Tizzie, or CC or even CIO if it works for your family.

Do what works for your family, stuff what anyone else thinks.

[Sonja]

Sigh. Sometimes I really do doubt you read anything I write for what I actually say and not what you think you want me to say.

The vast majority understood the OP. My first sentence was for the benefit of the doubt for those who clearly didn't. Not an admission as you like to put it.

I'm done with the tit for tat and sorry it's gotten nasty. I really like you a lot @A-Squared and often find myself in agreement with VicPark on many topics but this is one where I differ.

But I'm done with the argument about the point of this thread.

[Sonja]

Duplicate

[A-Squared]

Sorry it's turned into tort for tat, I guess I'm just looking for an 'okay I can see why you took the point of this thread the wrong way.

I feel I am being accused of knowing the intention of the thread but ignoring it, which isn't the case, so my natural reaction is to defend myself, but I'm not so sure Ive been able to prove that's not the case.

I'll go and delete my posts. Forget I ever said anything.

Actually mods, I've been quoted too many times. Can you please delete my posts and quotes of posts and get the thread back to the intended purpose- pre-circular arguments.

I'm truly not here to upset anyone, I don't want to be the road block to parents feeling supported, its not what I'm about and my attempts to prove as such seems to be doing the exact opposite. Sorry if I've upset anyone.

[HollyGolightly81]

The intention it seems it is. As you said you weren't clear enough in your OP.

I knew when starting my thread - the one you mention above - I had in my mind clear reasons for starting the thread and stated them in the OP to set the scene.

I didn't do a spin off not to derail the other thread or in argument of any comments in that thread, it was as I said something I was passionate about.

Your OP and posts in the thread you spun off from were basically arguing with VP that her views were wrong, not backed up by research, etc etc and you wanted to put forward your opinion on the topic matter. That in itself is an invitation for her and other like minded (whether partially or wholeheartedly) people to say, hang on a minute, I don't agree.

It's almost like tapping someone on the shoulder and saying oi, you're a old smelly horrible person and running off in the other direction so you force them to have no right of reply.

Anyway I'm barking up the wrong tree here, preaching to the deaf when it comes to sleep threads. Don't know why I bother trying to stick up for the minority or playing devils advocate.

As I said I'm a do what works for your family kind of person and if you're happy in your family to put your kids into the 'they're just a bad sleeper and there's nothing I can do' category whilst I think that mostly there's *probably* something you *might be* able to do, I do actually respect your decision to be at peace with the sleep situations you find yourselves in and embracing them rather than trying to fix them.

Equally I'm just as respectful if you want to change your child's sleep and you want to do it gently, or slowly or using Tizzie, or CC or even CIO if it works for your family.

Do what works for your family, stuff what anyone else thinks.

I'm sorry, but I really disagree with you when it comes to the OP. I've just reread and she is not offensive and she quoted the 'stat' in a general way (I can see why VP took it the wrong way, because of the comment in the other thread). I feel she is very clear with her intention, that she believes some kids just wake and it doesn't mean anybody is doing anything wrong--she never says sleep trainers are wrong to sleep train. Why is it wrong for her to have started a thread with that intention---to say to the other exhausted parents that are in a similar situation to hers that 'hey here I am and this is my story if you can relate?' I really think you chose to be offended or frustrated in this situation.

[CMF]

I never for one second thought the OP was ambiguous. I'm not sure where the confusion... sorry, 'confusion'... comes from.

[VicPark]

Your OP and posts in the thread you spun off from were basically arguing with VP that her views were wrong, not backed up by research, etc etc and you wanted to put forward your opinion on the topic matter. That in itself is an invitation for her and other like minded (whether partially or wholeheartedly) people to say, hang on a minute, I don't agree.

It's almost like tapping someone on the shoulder and saying oi, you're a old smelly horrible person and running off in the other direction so you force them to have no right of reply.
.

This was sort of what I thought when I read the announcement in the previous thread (asking me to stay out of the new thread) and then the initial post (quoting me and ending in "rant over" in this thread). It was so obvious to me. Either I am really really off the mark (I don't think so, however the possibility exists) or people are so blinkered their love for Sonja (ya know, because she's an OK chick) they can't see any room for anyone else to have a different opinion to her and still be valid (I won't say clique here because I'm not sure that's what has happened).

Either way I figured the OP was having a bad day which is why I tried my best to stay nice-ish. Either way think this thread is too far gone. Perhaps a separate thread with a clearer OP (not quoting anyone else's post who has a differing view) would be best for the "no sleep training safe space to fall" thing.

Anyhoo... I am off to toddle in your thread.

[GreenMama]

No one is saying don't have a different opinion. Just let there be one thread about sleep that is not a VP fest!

And yes, before you ask, I am having a bad day. I am having a bad year! I am exhausted! And no, before you ask, I don't want any advice!

[VicPark]

I never for one second thought the OP was ambiguous. I'm not sure where the confusion... sorry, 'confusion'... comes from.

From the post in the thread this thread was a spinoff from:

Done. Please stay out of the thread I created. I am not after advice.

From the OP in this thread:

this comment keeps appearing in various sleep related threads:


"Unless there are medical issues sleep throughout from kids are feasible with some tweaks to routine."




Anyway I am so tired of reading on here that with tweaks in routine, or adjusting this or that, my kids could sleep through. Or maybe if I just tried this or that.

Ok rant over.

Oh and I don't want advice about how to make my kids sleep through either. 😀