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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by maternidade View Post
    Exactly
    Not sure what your point is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    So if you're going to drug test, shouldn't it apply to everyone instead of targeting one group- especially when it has been shown repeatedly that this group is less likely to use illegal drugs?
    Point is that it is. As per previous post most workplaces have policies that allow them to test. Their current "employer" is the government, so why not.
    Police also have the right to test anyone now

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    Quote Originally Posted by maternidade View Post
    Point is that it is. As per previous post most workplaces have policies that allow them to test. Their current "employer" is the government, so why not.
    Police also have the right to test anyone now
    Really- *most* workplaces? I'm a government employee- a police employee actually- and my workplace does not have a policy whereby I am required to submit to drug testing. I don't think it's all that common at all.
    Police don't have the right to just test anyone at random with the exception of random testing of drivers- they have to have a reasonable suspicion.
    The why nots have been well discussed- it's costly, it marginalises and discriminates and generalises (incorrectly), it's ineffective.

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  6. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Really- *most* workplaces? I'm a government employee- a police employee actually- and my workplace does not have a policy whereby I am required to submit to drug testing. I don't think it's all that common at all.
    I don't think it's common either. I've never been subjected to a drug test in any of my workplaces. I think it tends to apply more so in industries such as mining, where safety risks are already quite high.


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    It is actually very common in a workplace environment where there is interface with the public or anything even remotely dangerous. I am involved in advising on workplace health and safety generally and a drug and alcohol policy is standard. From memory there needs to be reasonable cause. In any event it is usually found in the employers WHS policy (even if they never enforce it).

    There would be a general statement that all employees must comply with those policies (even if they never saw them).

    That's my guess anyway.

    But I see that as quite a different issue to what was being proposed by the article. I'm going to bed now so don't have the energy to go into it - be back tomorrow.

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    Gotta weigh up the gain against the loss, I mean, what about the percentage of those on dole payments who are far from addicts, like the bracket of older people struggling to be employed due to age, but still too young to retire, kids out of school still between jobs and studying, people with families and young children just trying to get by and who may lack in skills, all these people have already taken a kick to their confidence due to their situation, and then forcing them to be treated as potential drug addicts would push people further under into a state of hopelessness. Subjecting all recipients to this is cruel, demeaning and damaging. Certainly there's a number of folk that are addicts and on the dole. But this is not the answer. Addiction runs deeper than finances. It's like saying just take beds off depressed people, that'll sort them out. Where the government may save a penny on some dole checks, they'll be spending it in response to an increase in mental health, longer term unemployment for some due to their self worth being squashed. Plus an increase in crime rates. Addicts are still going to be addicts, gotta get their cash from somewhere. Weigh up the odds, do some sums. This is a narrow, crowd pleasing solution due to a stereo type. Imo.

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  11. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer1 View Post
    Gotta weigh up the gain against the loss, I mean, what about the percentage of those on dole payments who are far from addicts, like the bracket of older people struggling to be employed due to age, but still too young to retire, kids out of school still between jobs and studying, people with families and young children just trying to get by and who may lack in skills, all these people have already taken a kick to their confidence due to their situation, and then forcing them to be treated as potential drug addicts would push people further under into a state of hopelessness. Subjecting all recipients to this is cruel, demeaning and damaging. Certainly there's a number of folk that are addicts and on the dole. But this is not the answer. Addiction runs deeper than finances. It's like saying just take beds off depressed people, that'll sort them out. Where the government may save a penny on some dole checks, they'll be spending it in response to an increase in mental health, longer term unemployment for some due to their self worth being squashed. Plus an increase in crime rates. Addicts are still going to be addicts, gotta get their cash from somewhere. Weigh up the odds, do some sums. This is a narrow, crowd pleasing solution due to a stereo type. Imo.
    Are people not reading the article that was posted !?

    The government would only look into you if you got a opportunity to start a job & the job required a drug test before you commenced work then if you refused or failed the drug test the government would say well you just missed out on a job because you either failed the test or refused to take it so they would then give you 30 days with their help to get clean and redo a test then if you failed you would receive a cut to your payment until your next drug test .

    They are not going to just drug test everyone !!! For example if your employment agency got you a job on the mines you would need a drug test . But if you got a job at Coles you wouldn't need one !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle92 View Post
    Are people not reading the article that was posted !?

    The government would only look into you if you got a opportunity to start a job & the job required a drug test before you commenced work then if you refused or failed the drug test the government would say well you just missed out on a job because you either failed the test or refused to take it so they would then give you 30 days with their help to get clean and redo a test then if you failed you would receive a cut to your payment until your next drug test .

    They are not going to just drug test everyone !!! For example if your employment agency got you a job on the mines you would need a drug test . But if you got a job at Coles you wouldn't need one !!!
    Yes I read it. You are referring to the NZ model. The closing paragraph of the article is worrying (can't quote am on phone).

    I'm glad you are confident you know exactly what it means. Given how this government feels about welfare recipients I have my concerns.
    Last edited by Sonja; 02-06-2014 at 00:58.

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  15. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle92 View Post
    Are people not reading the article that was posted !?

    The government would only look into you if you got a opportunity to start a job & the job required a drug test before you commenced work then if you refused or failed the drug test the government would say well you just missed out on a job because you either failed the test or refused to take it so they would then give you 30 days with their help to get clean and redo a test then if you failed you would receive a cut to your payment until your next drug test .

    They are not going to just drug test everyone !!! For example if your employment agency got you a job on the mines you would need a drug test . But if you got a job at Coles you wouldn't need one !!!
    It doesn't say that- it says that is how it has been implemented in NZ- where the welfare system is different to ours. It says the government is looking at their system and may implement something similar- it doesn't give explicit detail of what would be implemented here. We don't know exactly what they have in mind so it's not unreasonable to discuss all relevant scenarios.

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  17. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    It doesn't say that- it says that is how it has been implemented in NZ- where the welfare system is different to ours. It says the government is looking at their system and may implement something similar- it doesn't give explicit detail of what would be implemented here. We don't know exactly what they have in mind so it's not unreasonable to discuss all relevant scenarios.
    This:
    The Coalition says it is looking closely at New Zealand’s welfare system, which includes a tough approach to drug use.
    is what it says.

    It does not say
    and may implement something similar
    That is an assumption that posters and "The Australian" seem to have made.

    The government has looked at heaps of models from many other countries.

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