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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I also find it interesting that people say they tweaked it, but then if someone else says that sos didn't work for their baby, then they are told they didn't follow it properly. Bit of a contradiction!
    "cherry picking". I thought the same thing.

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  3. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I also find it interesting that people say they tweaked it, but then if someone else says that sos didn't work for their baby, then they are told they didn't follow it properly. Bit of a contradiction!
    I've been thinking exactly the same thing.

    I also find it strange that Tizzie's whole SOS premise is set times and doing things by the book. Her routine IS the premise of SOS. Yet most change it around. I argue it's no longer SOS given how structured it is.

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  5. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I also find it interesting that people say they tweaked it, but then if someone else says that sos didn't work for their baby, then they are told they didn't follow it properly. Bit of a contradiction!



    I'll,try and explain it but I'm typing on my phone so its hard.

    What people refer to is statements like,making a cup of tea while baby is crying in a room alone is bad parenting or cruel,or what ever don't take into account:

    1. Bub might be cold
    2. But might have a poopy nappy
    3. There's no schedule
    4. There's no pre- nap or sleep routine

    So yes putting down a baby who is cold, with a poppy nappy, who is overtired and has been put in their,cot with no warning they are being put to sleep, bub will definitely cry an emotional cry and it won't sleep in the time it takes to make a coffee, because

    they technically did it wrong.

    Tweaking it would be different, eg, bub is warm, clean nappy, you follow a pre sleep routine so bub knows what comes next, but won't sleep, because even though the recommended schedule says 2 hours awake time, but your bub actually can only deal with 1.5hours, that is tweaking to suit.

    As you see, they are two completely different things.

  6. #184
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    9 pages of splitting hairs over whether 5, 10, 15 mins of protesting / crying is deemed CC or CIO.

    Personally I don't think it really matters what you call it or how you define it because clearly everyone's line in the sand is drawn at a different point when it comes to sleep training or no sleep training and it's a polarising parenting choice that people will never fully agree on. Some people think a 5min protest is akin to abuse. Some people think a 5min grizzle is acceptable but a 10-15min cry is not acceptable and some people feel 20+ mins of protesting is within their comfort level... so who's right and who's wrong!?!? There are babies out there right now that are screaming until they are black and blue in the face because their mum is busy in the next room smoking a b*ng or shooting up too out of it to attend their baby, who's attentiveness to her babies needs are so inconsistent the baby doesn't know when it will next be fed or held or bathed. Those are the babies who suffer the ill effects of true attachment disorder. I really think it is important to keep a little perspective, for SOS babies like my own and VP's who have caregivers who otherwise meet their babies needs, cuddle them, kiss them, bath them, feed them, make eye contact with them, play with them, laugh with them, tickle them, comfort them, love them.... teaching them to self settle has not been a detriment to our bond with our babies. I for one don't feel I missed out on anything, there were still plenty of hours in the day to kiss and cuddle my baby without having to always (try) to nurse him to sleep and we have a beautiful attachment.

    My DS thrived as soon as I implemented her routines, sufficient sleep for optimal development, he was a much happier baby and we functioned so much better as a family.

    OP, the only way to know if SOS will work for you is to try it, if you aren't comfortable with self settling techniques in the book, use different ones but the key is to use them alongside a routine so you can ensure bubs is not under tired or over tired when you put him to sleep and this will hopefully eliminate as much protesting as possible.

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  8. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMF View Post
    I always find interesting (puzzling?) this talk of grizzling vs crying, and how this crying is not crying, it's grizzling, and that the baby is not crying but you need to learn the difference between cries.... IMO a cry is a cry is a cry, especially for tiny babies. It's like when people argue they're controlled comforting and NOT controlled crying, or when people say they would NEVER smack but they do tap. It's all words really, different words for the same thing...
    Grizzling isn't a cry, it's like they're grumbling at you. Cranky chatting, sometimes a yelling at you type sound. etc. They're not crying. Usually they are doing it as they are trying to fall asleep. Sometimes they will just fall asleep after some grumbling and sometimes it will escalate to crying because they need help drifting off or something is wrong.

    Eta: most routines, even the most gentle are about giving a baby an opportunity to fall asleep on their own and letting them grumble a bit as often they are just trying to fall asleep and if you leave them alone they will.

    I know sometimes DS is in a light sleep grizzling away, trying to transition to a deeper sleep and if I go in I'll wake him properly which then leads to a sad baby.
    Last edited by HollyGolightly81; 22-04-2014 at 17:50.

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  10. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie Pallie View Post
    I'll,try and explain it but I'm typing on my phone so its hard.

    What people refer to is statements like,making a cup of tea while baby is crying in a room alone is bad parenting or cruel,or what ever don't take into account:

    1. Bub might be cold
    2. But might have a poopy nappy
    3. There's no schedule
    4. There's no pre- nap or sleep routine

    So yes putting down a baby who is cold, with a poppy nappy, who is overtired and has been put in their,cot with no warning they are being put to sleep, bub will definitely cry an emotional cry and it won't sleep in the time it takes to make a coffee, because

    they technically did it wrong.

    Tweaking it would be different, eg, bub is warm, clean nappy, you follow a pre sleep routine so bub knows what comes next, but won't sleep, because even though the recommended schedule says 2 hours awake time, but your bub actually can only deal with 1.5hours, that is tweaking to suit.

    As you see, they are two completely different things.
    So parents who don't follow sos or did it wrong put their babies to bed with a poo in their nappy? Or in a cold room? Not sure of any parent in their right mind would do either of those things. I'm not sure how you know what other parents did. Sorry if I've misinterpreted but that's how I understand it?

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  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsharvey View Post
    Possibly? So much more labour intensive though...
    Copy and paste...

  13. #188
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    I'm curious if any parents who have implemented SOS have read any research studies or books like 'what every parent needs to know' that document the long term damage that can be done to babies brains when they are left to cry. It has been linked with anxiety, depression and other mental illnesses. Essentially due to the brain being flooded with cortisol (stress hormone). Alternatively when babies are cuddled to sleep their brains are flooded with dopamine, oxytocin and other bonding hormones that have relaxation properties. This is the information that stops me short of using SOS or CC for my kids.

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  15. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    So parents who don't follow sos or did it wrong put their babies to bed with a poo in their nappy? Or in a cold room? Not sure of any parent in their right mind would do either of those things. I'm not sure how you know what other parents did. Sorry if I've misinterpreted but that's how I understand it?



    ah no, just to be clear, the baby may have pood after you put it down (it foes happen) maybe the room feels ok to you but your baby either is too warm or cold.

    My point is, there are a lot of things that you need to note, do, be aware of, set up etc, before getting bub into their cot and without doing them, baby is more likely to have an emotional cry than a winge and isn't likely to self settle.

    As I said I'm on my phone and a little time poor, so I don't have time to cover everything else that needs to be done to help the process (my4 points were just examples, not a complete list.) but I'm sure you get my point, whether you admit it or not.

  16. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acadaca View Post
    I'm curious if any parents who have implemented SOS have read any research studies or books like 'what every parent needs to know' that document the long term damage that can be done to babies brains when they are left to cry. It has been linked with anxiety, depression and other mental illnesses. Essentially due to the brain being flooded with cortisol (stress hormone). Alternatively when babies are cuddled to sleep their brains are flooded with dopamine, oxytocin and other bonding hormones that have relaxation properties. This is the information that stops me short of using SOS or CC for my kids.
    Nice try at trying to make your own parenting choices look superior. The problem is your lack of understanding of the SOS philosophy is getting in the way of a good point score.

    To answer your question: I haven't read any studies just a few articles here and there. I am not arguing against you on this point: I agree. I do believe that letting a bub cry and cry would cause some issues for the bub.

    Here's the clincher: The routine worked fine with my DS to the point where apart from a little grizzlng in the first few days he never had to cry for a feed or to go to sleep. Come to think of it, DS1 probably cried less than many SOS babies who have trouble settling and sleeping through the night (not saying all non SOS babies have these problems) .

    That's what the biased naysayers don't get. If the routine works well for a bub then they shouldn't be crying and crying ...


 

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