I would be interested in what field of 'male dominated industry' you have worked. As someone who has worked in a male dominated industry for over 15 years I have seen many improvements, but we are still so far from equal that at times it is laughable.
However I'm going to take a different tack rather than my personal anecdotes.
If it is all a matter of our choice - why are the rates of high school girls taking up maths and science in decline? What has society done that says, girls aren't 'smart' enough to do these subjects? Why are we no longer valuing education? Poor education choices leaves people with severely restricted work choices, which leads to poor outcomes in many many areas. Education choices aren't made by the child, they are made by what their family (which comes from society) tells them is acceptable.
We don't need less feminism, we need more. The fact that we are even having this discussion shows just how much more we need.
I would also be happy to provide personal anecdotes on winning 'women in construction awards', returning to work part time in a male industry, the fact that people are ready to knight my DH because he *gasp* stays at home to look after his own child, obvious and not so obvious discrimination etc etc. But as I'm sure you will put it all down to my own choice, there probably isn't much point.
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21-04-2014 12:57 #71
21-04-2014 12:58 #72
I get that, so really I should change my statement to disliking extreme and modern day feminism and wholely blaming society for any gender inequity that still exists and taking more personal responsibility for changing the inequity.
I also wanted to say thank you everyone for a civil discussion about this all, its nice to it have any nastiness
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21-04-2014 13:02 #73
Thankyou to those who have mentioned sexual assault and violence against women. Thankyou to those who have deigned to consider the plight of women in developing countries or those in underprivileged communities in our own country.
The attitude of "well it's never been a problem for ME" is just astonishing. Feminists demand equal rights for all women worldwide at every level of society, not just middle class western women.
Check your privelige!
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21-04-2014 13:02 #74
Lastly too, personal responsibility I talk about applies to in the workplace, by no means do I apply this to any form of domestic violence or sexual abuse
21-04-2014 13:11 #75
Let me start by saying I was never a feminist and I would still say I'm not a feminist but I am certainly an advocate for the rights of women. I was always for equal rights and believed there is no reason I the 21st century for a woman to be considered "less valuable" or sexualised which is what is happening more and more. The reason I was never a feminist was simply because I thought it was a big extremist movement run by crazy women who are a few sandwiches short of a good picnic and need to find something better to do.
I have since realized I was so very wrong! Feminism is not an extremist view, yes there are extremists but it isn't what makes feminism. I am a Christian and someone mentioned about Westboro. I would pray that no one would assume that all Christians are like the Westboro ones. WE ARENT!! They are extremist (and in my opinion totally missed the point of Christianity). We are very normal people who simply are following God.
Feminists are the same. They are a group of people standing up for equality for women and providing a place for my daughter to feel as though she can do anything and be anything she wants. If she wants to be a builder that would be ok same as if she wants to be a beautician or a receptionist.
I want my daughter to grow up in a place where she won't have to be afraid of her or her friends being the criticism of violence against women or sexual assaults. This is what feminism is about. And not just here in Australia but all over the world. The conditions some women live in is appalling!
I do think the extremists have done a bit of damage to feminism and now when people say "I'm a feminist" we are automatically shut down. I have had this conversation with many people and most people have tarred everyone with the same brush.
I can understand to a certain degree OP where you are coming from, but I think maybe your ideas have been based on extremists and not what it's truly about. It's about equality and we are on the way to achieving that but we still have a long way to go.
Last edited by Wally90; 21-04-2014 at 13:17.
21-04-2014 13:14 #76
21-04-2014 13:14 #77
21-04-2014 13:15 #78
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21-04-2014 13:18 #79
21-04-2014 13:21 #80
I'm time poor, and so I've not read all replies, I apologise for that, especially if I am repeating anything. But I'm going to make this very simple.
Feminism isn't *just* about laws, it's about societal changes, laws may be put in place, but that doesn't make immediate nor easily accepted changes. Changes to society and the way it works take a very long time. Just look at racism as a prime example. Here we are in 2014, anti-racism laws have been around for a long time, and yet racism clearly still exists. Because society takes a long time to change.
Some easy examples about feminism, without it women wouldn't be able to:
Work outside of the home
Work in previously made dominated industries (this is something that women STILL struggle with, however)
Be able to remain single and not be a social outcast
Be safe guarded by the law from marital rape
There are MANY things we have thanks to feminism that we previously didn't have. Feminism is important. And it remains important. The fight against models/advertising portraying unrealistic body images - a feminist thing. Fighting for government funded maternity leave - a feminist thing.
I could go on, but yes, I wanted to make this simple. Feminism isn't *just* about equal pay. It's about acknowledging that women do awesome things - which is why we celebrate things like the Australian Woman of the Year. Celebrating women isn't anti-feminist. Feminism has nothing to do with chivalry. Chivalry is about manners, it's not saying that women can't open their own doors.
Feminism should be simple. Feminism is wanting there to be no legal, or social gaps, between men and women.
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