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  1. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    You cant stop genuine refugees fleeing their homeland. But you can remove the incentive for them to transit through 4 different countries on their way to their first pick for resettlement.
    - Frasers words only fly if people are seeking asylum from Indonesia/Malaysia.
    And your words only fly if Indonesia and Malaysia sign the convention and grant refugees rights and agree to treat them properly.

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  3. #652
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    Are you listening to anything anyone says on here VP? It is illegal to be a refugee in Malaysia and Indonesia. Hardly cherry picking if Australia is the first safe country they reach. I is not like they are going to the UK, France, Germany and then Italy and then end up here.



    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    You cant stop genuine refugees fleeing their homeland. But you can remove the incentive for them to transit through 4 different countries on their way to their first pick for resettlement.
    - Frasers words only fly if people are seeking asylum from Indonesia/Malaysia.

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  5. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    Are you listening to anything anyone says on here VP? It is illegal to be a refugee in Malaysia and Indonesia. Hardly cherry picking if Australia is the first safe country they reach. I is not like they are going to the UK, France, Germany and then Italy and then end up here.
    I am listening I just disagree. In Indonesia and Malaysia an asylum seeker is safe from the initial threat they were fleeing. However, they do not have she opportunity for a first class lifestyle. And they do have the opportunity to register with the UNHCR (and with the Australian Embassy for a special Humanitarian visa) while they are there.

    I believe the situation in Indonesia & Malaysia is not ideal. However I do not believe it is sufficiently bad to justify a parent risking their child's life by putting them on a rickety boat to Australia.
    Last edited by VicPark; 28-07-2013 at 08:42.

  6. #654
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    Yes, they have the opportunity to live on the streets, and be put in Jail and sent home. Because they are ILLEGAL!

    Where is your compassion? Your humanity? Your empathy?

    Oh it is all ok as long as it is not our problem right? Those countries that haven't even signed the convention should look after refugees and we shouldn't That doesn't make any sense at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I am listening I just disagree. In Indonesia and Malaysia an asylum seeker is safe from the initial threat they were fleeing. However, they do not have she opportunity for a first class lifestyle. And they do have the opportunity to register with the UNHCR (and with the Australian Embassy for a special Humanitarian visa) while they are there.

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  8. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    Yes, they have the opportunity to live on the streets, and be put in Jail and sent home. Because they are ILLEGAL!

    Where is your compassion? Your humanity? Your empathy?

    Oh it is all ok as long as it is not our problem right? Those countries that haven't even signed the convention should look after refugees and we shouldn't That doesn't make any sense at all.
    Very few asylum seekers are sent home from Indonesia/Malaysia. Many are housed in facilities and some kids do have a access to charity provided education. Just like visa overstayers here people make it work.

    It has nothing to do with a lack of empathy or humanity. It's more to do with looking at the facts objectively allows me to come up with an un emotionally biased (clouded?) assessment.

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    Really? Objectively? We have signed the refugee convention, they haven't. We have a good human rights abuse records, both those countries have terrible ones. We are talking about some thousands of people, not millions of people. We are talking about a drop in the ocean that won't impact on your or my, or anyone else's life at all.

    How anyone could even suggest that refugees should live on the streets as an illegal, where their kids get no education, with the threat of the authorities picking them up and arresting them is beyond me. Seriously. I am actually flabbergasted.

    I'm not emotionally biased VP, I have empathy for people. That is different.

    I also believe very strongly that because we have signed the convention, that we need to honour it.

    And lastly - you suggest people should stay illegally in Malaysia or Indonesia? I wonder how those countries feel about that? Or does that not matter, as long as they aren't here.
    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Very few asylum seekers are sent home from Indonesia/Malaysia. Many are housed in facilities and some kids do have a access to charity provided education. Just like visa overstayers here people make it work.

    It has nothing to do with a lack of empathy or humanity. It's more to do with looking at the facts objectively allows me to come up with an un emotionally biased (clouded?) assessment.

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  11. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Very few asylum seekers are sent home from Indonesia/Malaysia. Many are housed in facilities and some kids do have a access to charity provided education. Just like visa overstayers here people make it work.

    It has nothing to do with a lack of empathy or humanity. It's more to do with looking at the facts objectively allows me to come up with an un emotionally biased (clouded?) assessment.
    How do you know they housed in facilities?

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  13. #658
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    If things weren't so awful over there, maybe they wouldn't even bother getting on dangerous boats in the first place. But it isn't better, because they haven't signed the convention. Catch 22.


    http://theconversation.com/refugees-...nexpected-8532
    "This puts them at risk of daily detection and imprisonment or at least a variety of rent-seeking mechanisms, such as authorities asking for “financial contributions”. This form of daily harassment is commonplace and many refugees factor this into their daily travels to and from work. Others work for employers that also provide them with makeshift housing where they work long hours for minimal pay. Many receive just $200-300 a month to work as mechanics, gardeners or on plantations.

    But these are the lucky ones. Life is much worse for those who cannot find work. Most vulnerable are smaller refugee communities, for whom finding paid work is hardest. Somali, Sudanese and other African refugees in particular face hardship, often relying on family and friends resettled to the West for survival.

    Some report racism from potential employers and landlords that makes even finding a place to live difficult. In desperate situations such as these, people quickly lose all hope for a better future resulting in severe mental health issues.

    Health Equity Initiative, a Malaysian NGO working with refugees on mental health issues, issued a report in 2010 titled “Between a rock and a hard place”. It paints a damning picture of the situation for Afghan refugees in Malaysia.

    They are trapped in an existence neither here nor there, where their children have minimal access to education, the parents have no work rights and their hope for a better future is on indefinite hold.

    It is desperate situations such as these that push some to contemplate the treacherous journey by boat to Australia. But this is only the smallest part of the story. There are around 100,000 asylum seekers and refugees registered with UNHCR in Malaysia, and an additional tens of thousands of asylum seekers outside of UNHCR purview"

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  15. #659
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    I get it now VP, you think this is good enough.

    I disagree. So do all of the countries which are signatories of the Refugee Convention.

    Do you have a link to these facilities?
    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Very few asylum seekers are sent home from Indonesia/Malaysia. Many are housed in facilities and some kids do have a access to charity provided education. Just like visa overstayers here people make it work.

    It has nothing to do with a lack of empathy or humanity. It's more to do with looking at the facts objectively allows me to come up with an un emotionally biased (clouded?) assessment.

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    I'd love to know where you're getting your info VP, and why is your info or your perception of it 'impartial' and 'unbiased' but anyone who disagrees with you is not? If you're going to continue to post about an asylum seekers life in Indonesia and Malaysia then back it up with some links as to why you've drawn this conclusion.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, because as you continue to state, you are allowed to disagree with me, and I you. I find your claim of refugees searching 'for a first world lifestyle' abhorrent. Heaven forbid that a human being just wants basic human rights.

    Like babyla said, you think a life in Indonesia and Malaysia should be good enough, I disagree.

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