we r out, it didn't make it, losing hope what r your thoughts blonde, stay on the dhea? can u be on that long term, I don't have a apt till Dec 3rd with FS to go over things again, so over this, feel completely drained, hope this next cycle is it for u x
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30-10-2013 15:21 #61
30-10-2013 16:02 #62
Am totally gutted for you luv!!!(they don't have a sad/crying/hugging icon, sorry luv) Nothing I say is going to make you feel any better at this point in time, so I won't even try with the platitudes. Just know that I'm terribly sad and disappointed for you and your DH. I was so sure at least one of them would make it. FFSx1000!!!!
As for the DHEA, yes, I would advise you to keep taking it and the Melatonin too (can't remember if you were taking it, but if so, continue or else get yourself onto it). I've been taking both since the end of April and it's perfectly fine to do so. All the research I've done on both say the full benefits will be reached after taking it for between 3-6 months. Myo-Inosotol is another supplement meant to help with egg quality and you may also want to look into acupuncture for you and your DH with someone who specialises in fertility. My FS is of the opinion there's no downside to acupuncture (he doesn't rate TCM at all) and if I had enough $ in the kitty, I would've been doing acupuncture myself this time too.
Secondly, you need to discuss with your FS about whether he/she thinks this is an egg/sperm problem. You can also get your DH onto some supplements to help improve his sperm. I can give you the list of what my FS recommends if you like (he also has a list for us ladies too, and will give you that as well). Again, the full
benefits of those will be reached from 3 months onwards. You may want to discuss trying some HGH (Saizen) to help improve your egg quality on your next cycle and also what protocol you're doing drug-wise etc. You may even want to discuss transferring at Day 3 instead of at Day 5. The only issue there being that there is two schools of thought surrounding ET's. Some FS believe in growing the embryo's out until Day 5 so as to see which one's are the strongest, whilst other FS believe embryo's are better off back in your oven sooner rather than later.
Don't chuck in the towel now luv!!! I know that's easier said than done especially right at this very moment when you're feeling broken hearted and discouraged. You did get further this cycle, so you know that you are moving forward in the right direction. Now it's about finding causes and ways to maximise your chances. Don't be afraid to do your research and take those findings/idea's etc to your FS for consideration. And if you're losing faith in your FS for any reason, don't be afraid to get a second opinion elsewhere with another FS who specialises in challenging cases like yours ok luv??? There is a way forward for you girl, you just have to find it and a lot of the time it's baby steps to get there.
For now, I feel you and your DH should just take a little time to grieve, vent, etc, etc and just get it right out of your systems. Be loving and kind to yourselves and each other. Comfort each other and when you're both ready and feeling strong enough, you both start again but first you both must heal physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
Please let my know if there's anything else I can do to help you luv. Feel free to PM if you want to. I still believe you can get there girl. Just don't you forget to keep believing it too!!! Take care sweetie, until next time.........
Last edited by BlondeinBrisvegas; 30-10-2013 at 17:29.
31-10-2013 18:14 #63
thanks blonde, will keep taking the dhea, the nurse said something about with the melatonin u can take it from day 21 or something before next cycle. Dh is on menevit, not sure if he can take anything else, what does yours take? with your dh having obstructive azoo does he have to have that aspiration to remove sperm on the Egg Collection day? Im angry we wernt given the chance to put that one back at day 3, I did ask them, who knows it could have made it, now we will never know Im so flat right now, no energy, really wish I had friends without kids that I could hang out with and talk to this is such a lonely journey at times. Not ready to give up yet but reality is really setting in that there is a strong chance we will neve have kids, how does one deal with that, I don't know. Will take a day at a time and hope to god this gets better and easier.
01-11-2013 11:50 #64
Not sure what your nurse is going on about regarding the Melatonin???. You really need to be taking it for longer than what she's saying to see any benefit. It's the same as the DHEA and all the other supplements I'm about to list for you and your DH. The full benefits of them won't be reached until 3 months. Make sure your FS gives you a script for 5mg's of Melatonin and take one capsule at night (about an hr before you want to go to sleep is my advice).
Yes, my DP had to have a TESA procedure performed (which he had done about 30 mins prior to my EPU on the day) to get the sperm and luckily the FS got enough both times to freeze 2 extra vials (which is what we are using this cycle and what we used in Cycle 2 and 3). Thankfully, the quality of his sperm has been really good both times and the scientist said last cycle that the quality was "as good if not better" than on Cycle 1 which is entirely due to the supplements(especially the motility as usually the tail of TESA sperm just wave from side to side and my DP's apparently go "10 to the dozen". TESA sperm are not fully mature as they haven't moved up from the testes to the Epididymis where they mature before heading into the Vas Deferens, so that makes things a little bit harder for us).
Anyhoo, here's the supplements list my FS gives to his patients.
For Him: Zinc-40mg's/day
Folic Acid tabs-5mg's/day (Megafol is the brand name. It's usually behind the counter at the chemist)
1 tbs of Goji berries or 20 ml's of Goji Berry juice/day
>10 pumpkin seeds/day (I just gave my DP 1 tbs of pepita seeds a day)
Aloe Vera Juice-20mls at night.
I also added Fish Oil capsules -1000 mg's/day and Cenovis one a day Multivitamin for Men capsule to this list and had DP taking all of these supplements for the 3 or so months before my last cycle.
For Her: Folic Acid-5mg's/day (Megafol brand)
Fish Oil- 1000mg's/day
Low dose asprin-100mg's/day (ask at counter for them)
DHEA- 75mg (3x25mg caps a day)
Melatonin-5mg/day at night
I also personally added Fresh Royal Jelly (you can get the capsule form from the chemist) and Vit D to this list(as my Vit D levels have been low in the past). My FS also said I could add Myo-Inosotol as well to this list but I think you have to order it on the net as I'm pretty sure chemist's don't stock it though health food shops might?? I haven't used it this cycle but God forbid, if I have to do another, then I'll add it too.
I've been taking all these supplements for the last 4 months now (except the DHEA and Melatonin which I've been taking for 6 months....will have taken both 5 months and 8 months by the time EPU comes around). Like I said earlier, full benefits from 3 months onwards. Do give it a try luv, you and your DH have nothing to lose.
I can understand why you're angry about not being allowed a Day 3 transfer. I think I'd insist for the next cycle that if you only have a few embryo's (3 and under) that they do a Day 3 transfer as a Day 5 transfer is also used by the scientists as a selection process when you get a good cohort of embryo's, but when you've only got 2 or 3 there's no need to do that as you already know which one's you're going to use. Although in saying that, like I said in my previous post, many FS (including mine) believe in growing them until Day 5 so as to know which one/'s (regardless of how many you have) are the strongest, the thinking being that at least you're in with a chance if the embryo's can make it until then. I don't know personally what's right or wrong, but I do know that your FS should take your wishes into consideration and if you want to have a Day 3 transfer, you should be able to have one (which my FS will do. He prefers Day 5, but will do whatever day you want) or else my advice would be to go to a clinic that will.
I also understand its hard having friends with kids especially if those children were conceived without any trouble (not that it's your friends fault that they can conceive easily and we can't, but the fact of the matter is, they can't truly understand what we go through), but thankfully, we (and I mean all of us here on BH) are here for you instead. To a certain extent, I know how you feel.
It is just one day at a time. Like I said in my other post, this is a time for healing and regaining your strength for you and your DH. I was ready to throw the towel in after my BFN last cycle (and I seriously mean I'd had a gutful of the whole thing) but time to regroup and some encouragement from another of by BH mates gave me the will to keep going (plus we also had the 2 vial's of DP's sperm on ice and I didn't want to waste them but most of all, I still believed and had hope that I could achieve a BFP). Yes, there is the possibility that you may never have kids, the same possibility is there for every single one of us girls who haven't any previous children who are doing ART in any of its forms, but the time to deal with that is when you've exhausted all your possibilities that you're willing to do/try or if you financially/emotionally etc just can't go on etc (and with professional help in my opinion) and that time is not now for you and your DH so don't cross that bridge until you come to it (and my hope for you sweetie is that you never do) Focusing on your next plan of attack and what you can do to maximise your chances is where you need to direct your energies once you've regained them and you and your DH have fully healed from this disappointment. Don't go into another cycle still wounded luv is my advice. Take a little bit of time now to recover ok?? It's a day by day process girl, so just take one step at a time.
Ok, must go for now......Like I said earlier, i'm here to listen and will help you in any way I can. If you want to keep things off the thread, just PM me ok luv??
Take care sweetie, until next time............
Last edited by BlondeinBrisvegas; 02-11-2013 at 05:43.
01-11-2013 16:38 #65
Booboo, sorry to read your update. Blondie has given you some great advice, take some time to regroup and go again... don't give up love it can take a few goes. I'm all for a second opinion too.
02-11-2013 20:21 #66
Thanks ladies, u know how to make me feel better and give me hope, thank u Have no idea why the nurse said that then?? ill have to check. Got our referral for another clinic so will ring up Monday and book in. Will also see original FS on the 3/12 so a bit of a wait, which is frustrating. Crap week so have been eating and drinking pretty much whatever I want, will get back to being healthy soon. For the TESA procedure blonde is it painful for dh? I heard there are 2 types that and PESA. That's great the samples came back extra good Im wondering whether they might suggest that to us, to get better quality sperm.
03-11-2013 05:40 #67
I did read about a study where they gave one group of women Melatonin (from day 21 of their cycle onwards) and the other group nothing to see if Melatonin did make a difference. I would say your FS may use that study as a guide, but the usual practice is to give it (and any other supplements) 3 months ideally so as to receive the full benefits.
DP's TESA procedure wasn't painful. DP had the option of either going under anaesthetic or just having a local anaesthetic injected prior to the procedure. He just had a local injection both times (although the first time on Cycle 1 the anaesthetist gave him a bit of pethidine as well just in case he was in pain and that knocked him out so he didn't remember having it done at all.) When he had the procedure performed last cycle (I was with my new FS), I asked my FS to PESA him (not all FS will perform a PESA procedure and I don't know why??) as well as checking the Vas Deferens for sperm (because we didn't know where the blockage was and PESA sperm is more mature than TESA sperm and sperm from the Vas Deferens is even better). Anyhoo, FS couldn't find any sperm in the epididymis or the Vas Deferens (at least we know now where the blockage is pretty much) but luckily got extra's again from the testes to freeze.
My DP was a little bit bruised a sore for a few days after TESA number 1 (but was able to go back to work straight away), this last time, he was literally black and blue all over and had to take a couple of days off work (poor bugger) and the bruising and soreness lasted a lot longer (unsurprisingly, as virtually no part of his anatomy was left "undrilled")
I'm not sure if they'll suggest that to you seeing as (and I'm presuming) your DH can give a normal ejaculated sample?? What they may suggest is having your DH's sperm further tested to see if there are any issues with it (translocations, antibodies etc). The general thinking is that if issues arise with an embryo from fertilisation until Day 3 it's a maternal problem (egg), then from Day 4 onwards it's a paternal problem (sperm). I don't know if that's true or not, just what I've read when researching. Maybe something to ask your FS (both of them) and good on you for going and getting that second opinion too luv
I say eat and drink whatever the hell you want for the moment!!! A couple of weeks indulging in whatever you want to do is not going to make any difference to the big picture and is part of your "recovery therapy" as far as I'm concerned So, go for it!!! And get on to those supplements asap too while you're waiting
OK girl, enjoy the rest of your weekend. Until next time........
13-11-2013 19:56 #68
How r things going blonde? Not much to say this end apart from we have apt with new FS next Wed and one with reg FS for review 3/12. With being back on the dhea think its giving me headaches
14-11-2013 11:47 #69
Am glad to see you're going for a second opinion. It can't hurt that's for sure. Don't be afraid to speak your mind, offer your own idea's and opinions or challenge what they say if you don't agree etc. There's nothing wrong with that and as long as its done in a respectful manner, that's ok. Sometimes you have to do your own legwork/research in this game (God knows why, we pay them enough, yet I've found a lot of FS are not very forthcoming with info etc you've got to bring it up to them yourself).
I hope you and your DH are feeling a bit better about things luv I'm glad you're still determined to keep going at this point and I wish you all the luck in the world Headache's are not usually a side effect of DHEA, but who knows luv?? We're all different. It's no doubt partially stress related too. Hopefully they'll subside for you soon. Go the panadol in the meantime!!!
AFM: Still taking the BCP. I start Lucrin injections and prednisolone this Monday coming. I also have Endometrial Scratch booked in for next week too Not looking forward to it as it's agony for me to have it done due to my extra tight cervix Most women experience little pain with this procedure, but not me I'm afraid. This time I've organised mega strong painkillers to take beforehand and plan to be well and truly "oiled" before I even get in there!!!
Anyhoo, take my last BCP around the 26th of Nov, wait for AF then start stimms Not too long to go now luv. Am still taking all the supplements I mentioned in my earlier post and am hoping I'm going to reap the benefits at EPU. Am starting to feel the anxiety beginning, but have started to listen to a meditation cd nearly everyday hoping it will help me keep my sh*$ together!!!
Ok luv, I must go. Thanks for checking up on me. I'll be on the lookout for your update either here or on the other thread you're on, but know I'm keeping my for you and hoping this new FS can shed some light and offer some new ideas for your next cycle.
Until next time.....................
Last edited by BlondeinBrisvegas; 14-11-2013 at 11:49.
27-11-2013 22:18 #70
Gl blonde, hope things r looking good for u to start . Went to see a new FS but it didn't feel right with them, going back to reg FS for a review next week so will go from there
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