Hi BinB, - I just wanted to say good luck for tomorrow. I've been reading but haven't had time to reply. But will try sit down and write more tomorrow.
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24-05-2013 21:41 #21
25-05-2013 11:59 #22
Hi Mrs P.......
Appointment with WDA went well this morning.....Took DP along and it was a real eye-opener for him to see my uterus/ovaries up on the monitor!!!! I'm normally flying solo for these appointments as DP's at work (and usually these appointments are through the week)but not today Didn't hurt him to have his horizon's broadened and to educate himself a bit more about what's involved regarding my end of the deal!!!! And when we went to the Nurse's office to get all the drugs I'm going to have to inject he was rendered speechless at the amount of boxes etc she was packing into the carrier bags...and we still had to go downstairs and collect the Saizen on our way out!!!! Am sure it's given him a new understanding and appreciation of what I go through everytime I do a cycle
WDA has decided instead of stimming with Menopur alone, that he's going to alternate Gonal-F one day and Menopur the next (both at 600iu a day....300iu in the morn...300iu at night) I don't have any LH issues and I think he doesn't want to risk overdoing the LH by using Menopur alone....Fair enough.... He also prescribed 8 vials of Saizen for me, so am taking one 3mg vial a day as well. I'm to drop my DHEA down to one capsule a day from here on in and keep the Melatonin to one capsule as I have been. Today I started on the Progynova (estrogen) tabs...4 tabs a day....and will start Nitrodur patches tonight. Have had my Lucrin, Saizen and half of my Gonal-F injections for the day. Do the other Gonal-F tonight. Am feeling nauseous I think from the Progynova tabs but nothing too major thank God!!! Have to ph the office on Monday morning and make an appointment for another scan for this Fri coming (CD8)
That's all to report for the day.....Thanks for your kind words and thoughts I can imagine you're flat our with an almost 2yr old and don't have a lot of free time, so no worries there love....I know you'll get around to replying when you can Allrighty, be back tomorrow or Monday for another update. Hope you're having a lovely weekend....
Last edited by BlondeinBrisvegas; 25-05-2013 at 12:01.
25-05-2013 20:11 #23
Hi Blondie, - Glad all went well today, and your DH got to go with you for an eye opener . I'm lucky that my DH does shift work and gets to go to allot of appointments with me. Not sure how we will go away from home though.
How are you going to remember all your drugs? For my last HRT FET, I had everything in Ical on my computer and got reminders to take them on my iPhone. That worked quite well, but it was only half the drugs (if that).
About my AMH test! I was told that results can very depending on allot things, from the time of day it was taken, to how long it takes for the blood to get to the lab, so your guess is as good as mine. However, I wasn't surprised it went up, because on my last (simple ol' 300iu gonalF antagonist) stim, I was told I'd be lucky to get one egg, and we got 3. All fertilised and all used over 2 cycles. It's still low though, but it's consistent with my 45 years.
I will be on exactly the same as you by the sounds of it, bar the saizen (ATM) as he doesn't think it will benefit me. Very interesting that he decided to alternate your stimming drugs. I hope it goes well for you. I 'don't think' I have an LH problem either, I get positive OPK's every month, if that'll means much. Has he done any extra testing to come to that conclusion?
AFM, - Pretty sure I'll get AF tomorrow, and I'm only CD25 today, so that will be 2 or 3 days early. I guess first cycle after a FET isn't quite normal.
And yes! DS keeps me very busy, and he's not 100% ATM so he's a bit of an extra handful. But I'll take all the handful I can get because he is growing up too fast.
Well, I hope the progynova doesn't make you ill for too long. And I hope friday goes really well. I'll keep everything crossed that you see lots of good follies .
26-05-2013 14:51 #24
Hi Mrs P................
I've made a handrwritten day by day "spreadsheet" of sorts that lists in the top half all my pills/supplements and on the bottom half is all my injections. I just tick each item off the list when I've done them (4 ticks for Progynova) I also write under certain drugs when to start/cease them (for eg, tomorrow is my last Lucrin injection, so have written under it ...."last injection today"....you get my drift) Yep, you gotta be super organised with this protocol and having a daily list is what I need to keep my head (and meds) in order!! Today has been a bit of a mixed bag in terms of side-effects.....Woke up at 2am this morning with a dull, throbbing headache that I'm pretty sure was caused by the Nitrodur patch I put on last night. I lay in bed tossing and turning for a while, then I got out my mini torch and read (so I didn't wake DP up)..when the headache still hadn't shifted by 4am, I got the sh**ts and got up. After a cup of milo and then a cup of tea later on it finally went away....Can only hope it was a once off and it doesn't happen tonight......
Had my first Menopur injection this morning (have the rest tonight). All good there, is easy to mix and draw into the syringe's supplied. Was fine injecting until about the last 75iu when it was a little stingy, but nothing major. The Saizen was pretty much the same. Easy to mix and draw into the syringe ( I only used 1ml of solution as opposed to the 5ml's it comes with which is ok to do). Just have to treat that one more gently when mixing the vial as it's easy to form air bubbles as I discovered (only a few and nothing to worry about) Wasn't painful at all injecting the solution, just felt a bit "ouchy" at the injection site afterwards but not for very long.
The real offender here is the Clexane injections.....they hurt like a Biatch!!!! It's the needle that's on the end of the pre-filled syringe. It's thicker than the other needles and you have to actually puncture your skin when getting the tip in. It doesn't slide in easily like the other needles do and to add insult to injury, I found it a bit stingy injecting the solution in too Yep, this will be the one I dread doing everyday.....Anyhoo.......
On the upside, I've had no nausea today and despite having F.A sleep last night, am actually feeling pretty good, mind you, that can all change by tomorrow!!! Thanks for explaining about the AMH...very interesting indeed!!! Mine's low too (7.5), but like you, par for the course for my age. Yep, I'm still ovulating every month and am assuming he's come to that conclusion..r.e..LH from the blood tests he's done so far (and from all the others on file from my 3 previous cycles). He's not done any exta/special testing as far as I know. Just the standard stuff.
Sounds like I have similar cycle days to you...Mine are on average 27/28 days give or take a day every now and again although my AF from last month (not the one I'm having now) was only 25 days long which is a rare occurence for me....I think the last time that happened was back in 2011!!! although I do have a few 26day cycles here and there....No reason I can think of for it either as my last IVF/ICSI cycle was in Dec last year. Sadly, I've never done a F.E.T as the remaining embryo's from our first 2 cycles weren't suitable for freezing and on my last cycle I only had 3 mature eggs from the 9 eggs collected and only the 2 of them fertilised......an epic fail with no explanation as to why although it's probably one of the reasons I'm doing this particular protocol now
Am hoping your DS is on the road to recovery ....poor little wee one!! Nothing worse then when they're sick...My just over 41/2 yr old nephew was out of action last week with a cold, but he's fine now, though my little sister's dirty because he's given it to her!!!! Is always the way though isn't it???? Ok Mrs P.....that's all to report for the day Am hoping AF won't cause any drama's by coming early for you. Am keeping my too for Friday....am hoping all this pill popping/jabbing and pain are going to pay dividends follicle-wise!!! Usually, my right ovary does all the work with my other "co-stars" on the left!!! Will keep updating through the week with an interim report Friday...
P.S.....Where's home for you if you don't mind me asking??? Am sure you and DH will be fine when you fly in for your treatments etc...
Last edited by BlondeinBrisvegas; 26-05-2013 at 16:03.
26-05-2013 19:11 #25
Good evening BinB, - Thx for the update . Sorry about your headache and lack of sleep last night. The hot chocolate sounds nice though. Are you making sure you are drinking plenty of water? Very important!
AF didn't arrive today. Just still threatening with spotting. In both ways! As I have extra pre AF spots on my face, compliments of the DHEA.
We probably wouldn't be able to start now anyway since WDA is taking the first week in July off, and EPU and ET would fall in that week. I suits us better to do it in a few months anyway.
I hear you on the clexane. I've had to take it every cycle. I always find holding the needle on a 45 degree angle, with the pointy tip on the underside makes it easier to inject, and injecting it slowly helps stop the sting of the fluid going in. I also sit still with a cuppa for 10 or so mins afterward, and I looked forward to that part.
Have a great week. Look forward to the next instalment . Oh, home is cairns.
27-05-2013 11:50 #26
Hi Mrs P......
Am pleased to report there's been no further headache's and I actually slept through last night and had 7 full hours sleep!!! Hallelujah!!! I did have a wicked dream though, courtesy of the DHEA (vivid dreams is yet another side effect of them). I hear you on the spotting issue r.e. the facial one's. I broke out with a few beauties too thanks to the OCP with this months AF...
Thanks for the great tip regarding the cleaxane. Will try that with tomorrow's injection. I iced my stomach for a minimum of 5 mins for todays injection and like you suggested, injected the fluid in slowly and that definately helped minimise the "ouch" factor. Yep, have upped the fluid intake too thanks for asking love and that's helped as well. I find it hard to keep it up in winter, but have been drinking a lot of clear types of soup to make sure I'm getting enough.
Other than that...all's good. Have felt a few twinges in the general vicinity of my right ovary so something's happening......at least, I hope it is!!!! Have been feeling slightly anxious that I'm going to get in there Fri and see that doing this protocol has made no real difference follicle-wise and it's going to be the same old same old. I don't know why I'm feeling this way as i've never felt this way before, but I suspect it's because my last cycle was such an epic fail (9 eggs and only 3 mature)..... I'm feaful of it happening again but will just have to think positively......
Allrighty Mrs P.....that's all from me. Hope AF has stopped playing games and has shown up by now.....until next time.....
27-05-2013 21:28 #27Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
Mrs P… I’ve seen you on the FNQ thread, fingers crossed that this next cycle will be the lucky one for you. Hope AF shows up in full soon if it hasn’t already.
BinB… I hear you on the Hallelujah for 7 hours sleep... I had three days of insomnia last week during my cycle but wasn't sure if it was IVF stress or the drugs, I was wrecked by last Thursday and had to resort to half a sleeping pill I was a new woman the next day... I'm not loving the Nitrodur patches either, no headaches, but I always feel better once they're off. Good luck for Friday... hope there's lots of juicy follicles growing in those ovaries....
AFM, BinB I was really interested to read your post about WDA's concerns re the Menopur and LH. I had my first appointment with WDA earlier this month where he prescribed me a straight 600iu Menopur Antagonist cycle. As I’d not used Menopur before I did a little reading and was concerned the Menopur was not the best drug fit for me as there has been a question mark over whether I am PCO due to a history of high LH to FSH ratio (double or triple my FSH which is a symptom of PCO) and irreg periods. I also had early lutenisation with a huge LH spike at day 5 of my Dec cycle last year which almost led to its cancellation. WDA actually commented that he would have cancelled this cycle had he been my FS so he was aware of my LH issues during the initial consult…
Following my consult I contacted WDA the next day to let him know I was concerned the extra LH in the Menopur could compromise my egg quality and that in my case maybe Gonal F would be a better idea. To his credit he took my concerns on board and offered to take back the Menopur and swap for Gonal F… but after agreeing to this he rang me back a short time later to say that unfortunately as the drugs had left the building they could not be returned to QFG but I could pay for Gonal F out of my own pocket if I wanted to use it (yeah thanks!). I was upset but talked to my partner, slept on it and decided to give the Menopur a go and stop second guessing the FS as I thought he must have had his reasons for switching me to Menopur - though I don't really feel that these reasons were adequately explained…
WDA rang back the following morning to say he would pay for the drugs personally if I really wanted to return the Menopur to his office and use Gonal F instead, I appreciated his offer but by this stage my partner and I had decided to give the Menopur a try. Though I did ask his nurse Kate whether I could use Gonal F in conjunction with the Menopur during my cycle but was told that Medicare would only pay for one type of FSH product per cycle so I find it interesting that you have been given both…
Anyhoo the following week I started stims using 600 iu of straight Menopur once AF arrived. WDA kept a close eye on my bloods this cycle and fortunately my levels have been text book and LH has not been a problem. My estrogen was 10,000 at the time of trigger and I had 6 follicles on my ultrasound so I had high hopes for 6 or even a little more given that I usually get 1 follicle for per 1000 estrogen but at EPU today only 4 eggs were retrieved which was disappointing and no better than previous cycle on 300iu of gonal f. Now just waiting on tomorrow’s fertilisation report which, to be honest, I don’t have high hopes for but maybe that’s just the jaded IVFer in me talking.
Sorry this has turned into a longwinded off topic post about me I guess I’m just needing to vent as this whole LH / Menopur thing has been playing on my mind and to be honest it hasn’t really done all that much for my confidence in WDA, particularly now that he has adjusted your drugs... just feels like he has taken what I've said on board and amended his protocol. I am paying thousands of dollars for FS to do his job. Shouldn't be up to me to point out some very obvious concerns about drug choice.
Last edited by Domiffy; 27-05-2013 at 22:26.
28-05-2013 13:55 #28
Oh love, I just don't know what to say!!! Regarding WDA's decision to alternate my drugs, well, that was completely his idea...I, too, was initially prescribed 600iu Menopur alone when I first saw him at the end of April for my consult and was given my drug protocol, but then,when I saw him on CD2 on Sat morn just gone, he'd decided to change it and combine the Gonal-F and Menopur on alternative days. As I mentioned to Mrs P, I don't have any LH issues and my hormones are still running like clockwork and within all the normal values (besides my AMH) at this point in time. His reasoning to me for the change in protocol was that he didn't want to risk overdoing the LH in my system hence using the combination.
I have no idea about the Medicare rules regarding FSH drugs in the cycle, but I wasn't told (nor have I been asked) to pay any extra....but the fact he offered to pay personally is to his credit and demonstrates the man's integrity....How many other FS's would do that??? This is my first cycle (and very probably my last either way) with WDA. I was with another FS at QFG which I felt was just far too conservative (a very lovely and caring conservative FS I must point out!!) and after 3 failed cycles and that FS not wanting to try anything different, I felt it was time to seek a second opinion and so I started researching whom I thought would be best placed to help us(especially because I'm an older woman) and my research (and countless positive testimonials) pointed me in WDA's direction. I'm very happy with him and trust in his experience and knowledge though I can fully understand why you feel the way you do and I'm so sorry that your experience hasn't been as positive as you'd hoped. I believe WDA genuinley cares and am pretty certain he'd want to know how you are feeling right now. I definately urge you to let him know...or Kate at the very least.....
I have read that Menopur can distort the E2 levels (give a higher reading than what they actually are) which is why those levels can't be relied upon alone to give an indication of follicle viability....were your other 2 follicles empty or were there eggs in them that were immature??? Love, you're not out of the race yet.....You have every reason to believe based on your previous cycles that your eggs will fertilise and more importantly, the quality of your eggs will have increased thanks to the Menopur. I understand about the jaded feelings, I feel that way myself sometimes, wondering if DP and I are just pushing sh*&t uphill here and throwing good money after bad....and yep, I know girl about the enormous amount of $ we go through to do this.....especially this cycle for us....it's going end up costing us double in out of pocket costs than the others and DP and I are just good, old blue collar workers I hear you on the "pointing things out to the FS"....From my own experience with my previous one (plus reading about other ladies experiences with theirs), it seems it's up to us most of the time to suggest new protocols/drugs etc. That really started to p*ss me off in the end with my last FS. I just don't understand why they are not more forthcoming about offering different options etc. It's not like they don't know about the myriad of drug options/protocol's, so why not just offer them especially when it's one failed cycle after another???
But my girl...at the end of the day, we can only do what we can do within our limits whether they be financial,emotional etc. We can only try something different and hope for the best. You and I both know in this game there are no guarantee's (or there'd be a 100% success rate) and we just keep on going until either we've had enough emotionally, physically or spiritually or the money runs out....(which is where DP and I are at which is why I'm throwing everything at this cycle drug wise including taking the Saizen...did you btw??)
Anyhoo girl, am keeping my for you and your DH....May you be saturated in!!!! Please stay in touch and let us know how you get on (or let me know what thread you're on so I can read it) to you girl.......Feel free to vent anytime!!!!
Last edited by BlondeinBrisvegas; 29-05-2013 at 14:03.
28-05-2013 16:45 #29Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
BinB thank you so much for your lovely supportive post. It is just what I needed. Your words rang true with me on every level. I also decided to seek a second opinion for similar reasons as you – I respect and trust my old FS but also felt he was too conservative and that I was the one suggesting how to tweak my cycle but I did manage a BFP on my December cycle as well as a frozen blasto from 4 eggs – FS actually said at the time egg quality was very good and that whatever I was doing was working (yoga, supplements, acupuncture, diet etc). But the many wonderful testimonials and inspiring WDA success stories - especially for the oldies - was too much to resist and DP and I thought we would give him a try in the hope he would get us over the line that much quicker with his treatment regime but I am realistic and know there are no guarantees.
I don’t doubt for a minute WDA wants the best outcome for his patients - he is beloved by many for very good reason and I agree that for him to offer to personally buy back the drugs showed a very high level of integrity that I am sure few other FS's would demonstrate...
Unfortunately, this time round has been my worst result ever. Fert report today was not good. Only 2 fertilised and to be frank at this stage I would be surprised if they even make it to day 3. I had two empty follicles out of the four which I’ve never had before and of the four one fertilised abnormally and two were immature but fertilised later in the day. Can’t remember what the problem with number four was. For me high stims egg count was worse than previous cycle on 300iu of gonal f and a #*?"load more drugs for my body to deal with and although WDA does not believe that high levels of stims impact quality I have read plenty of info to the contrary. It’s also possible I was triggered too early and that is a risk when cycling remotely (I live in Cairns) and someone else is doing your scans as WDA’s decision as to when to trigger is based on a third party’s interpretation of follicle size on an ultrasound. I hate to put up such a negative post, especially while you are cycling, but I feel obliged to share my experiences as I have learnt so very much from others who have shared their experiences on this forum over the last couple of years.
BTW I read about you biopsy and lipoidal flush experience… I also did the endometrial biopsy in WDA’s rooms prior to commencing my cycle – OUCH!!! I almost jumped out of the chair and I still wince at the thought of it – but I appreciated that WDA did it then and there during my initial consult as it was a huge saving to not have to go under GA. I decided not to use Saizen this cycle but I really hope that it gives your follies that extra edge… thanks for the info about the Menopur distorting estrogen levels – I didn’t know that so that’s one less thing for me obsess about. You are quite right, I should talk to WDA and will do once I know the outcome of this cycle.
Thanks again for you kind thoughts and words and for the ... I need every little bit I can get Hoping to hear great things from you after you scan on Friday and that your BFP is just a hair’s breadth away.
Last edited by Domiffy; 28-05-2013 at 17:08.
29-05-2013 11:22 #30
Hello Domiffy girl.....
Yep, that's a shi*^er allright regarding your egg count/fertilisation outcomes. Unfortunately the empty follicle situation is completely out of your hands and can't be anticipated most of the time. However, the triggering too early can....and I really hope that's not what's happened (I'm still suspect that that's possibly what happened in my previous cycle when I only ended up with 3 mature eggs out of 9...either that or maybe I needed a higher trigger dose...mmmmm....). I, too, have had eggs that have matured up in the lab from my previous cycles and all that can be done now is to that the Menopur has done its job and increased your egg quality and that the 2 embies you've got growing now will end up top of the range!! (which incidentally has never happened for us...ours have always been of average quality hence why none of the leftovers were ever good enough to freeze but that's what you get when you combine older eggs and not fully matured TESA sperm...But, we can only play the cards we've been dealt...sigh....)
Are you going to go for another 3-day transfer??? I'm assuming you're going to pop them both in..???? I know WDA is a Day 5 man but will do a Day 3 if that's what you want. Yes, I see that you had a BFP in Dec last year and I'm so sorry love that you and your DH lost your little one....the only positive there is that your body knows what to do and you can at least rest easy knowing that your body won't reject your embies, so it's just a matter of getting them in your oven and hoping that they stick (and that's where the benefits of the Endo Scratch will hopefully kick in....flipping ouch allright!!!! Kate told me to take 2 Naprogesic an hr before and a stiff scotch...I took 3 Naprogesic and declined on the scotch...Afterwards, I wished to God I'd downed a whole bottle!!!! And I don't even drink the sh#*!!!!!)
Don't worry love......you're not being negative....only honest and I appreciate it. You can only call it as you see it.....I don't know if doing any of this is going to make a lick of difference to us either in the end.....but if it doesn't, I can at least have the peace of mind of knowing that i've turned over every stone and tried all there is to try in this (seemingly) neverending quest to have a child. It's incredibly important to me that should I have to accept that we won't ever become parents in this lifetime (and frankly, its a very real possibility given our circumstances.....my age.....having to use not fully mature sperm via TESA from DP......incidentally, I've asked WDA to try to PESA DP first in the hope of getting more mature sperm from the epididymis. WDA agreed without hesitiation which is more than I can say for my last FS who wouldn't even consider it!!) that I've done absolutely everything I/we can within our means and I know, regardless of the outcome of this cycle, in my heart of hearts, that we have.
It will be interesting to see the lay of the land (or my ovaries morelike) on Friday......the twinges I've been feeling for the last couple of days have been increasing and now it's on my left-side too and even a few niggles in my breast....what the???? Maybe from the Progynova tabs.....hopefully something positive is going on down there.....Will post a progress report on Friday for you and Mrs P and any other ladies reading
Ok girl, keep your chin up......and here.....have a truckload more of while I'm at it!!! I'm for you and sending vibes/prayers the Fertility God's way for you both!!!! Please keep posting and let me know how you get on
Last edited by BlondeinBrisvegas; 29-05-2013 at 14:16.
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