Thanks BinB, I will speak to him about this when I see him on Tuesday? By then you will be nearing your BT. Good luck
Domiffy - So sorry to hear about your BFN . Life truly isn't fair sometimes. I noticed your HCG of 3, wouldn't that suggest some attempt at implantation? Just wondering if you have been checked for natural killer cells? Even if you used pregnyl I would have thought HCG would be 0 by BT.
Hi Mrs P and Lazza
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15-06-2013 05:34 #101
15-06-2013 18:49 #102
Hi girls, - Domiffy , I hope you are feeling a little bit better today.
BinB, - Another day down!
16-06-2013 09:54 #103
Hi Mrs P............
How are you going today??? Am hoping you're having a lovely weekend. No sugar for 2.5 months?? Are you being good in preparation for your next cycle??? For my first 2 cycles, I was positively anal about my diet, etc, on my 3rd, I was a bit more relaxed but still cautious, this time, I decided that if I wanted something (like the white choc and macadamia biscuits(and yes, they were delicious!!!)or a bit of chocolate etc) I was going to have it!!!! Obviously, I've cut out the usual suspects you shouldn't eat/drink (coffee (not that I drink that much),alcohol (again, I rarely touch the stuff) etc) and I use Stevia instead of sugar in my cups of tea/milo (although I usually use Splenda sachets when I'm not cycling), but for some reason this time, I've just decided to chill out more dietary wise and just have what I want (within reason of course).
Yes, I was relieved and grateful "The Heap" didn't cost me an arm and a leg and she's now cruising back on the streets as good as gold (for now anyhoo....I know it's only a matter of time!!!) A BFP from me??? Oh, no pressure at all Mrs P.....!!!! It either is or it isn't and what's done is done now so only time will tell.
Good luck on Tuesday!!! Hope you see some lovely follies at your scan and everything's as it should be. Let me know what happens with WDA and the emby transfer debate won't you??
Hope all is going well with you too if you're still reading this thread.....best of luck with everything.....
Am still thinking of you and your DP and hoping you're doing better today......I haven't forgotten you, nor will I......healing vibes you and your DP's way love.......will still be here when you're ready......just know that you're in my thoughts girl......
Am due to have my last Pregnyl booster shot today. I've got no feeling either way that I may or may not be pregnant though I would of expected to be having some kind of symptoms by now if I was. It's not that I'm not having symptoms....my breasts are still enlarged, I'm still having niggly pains here and there, I've been feeling more emotional (irritated and cranky one minute, bit sad and teary the next) but that changes from one day to the next, I'm feeling weary around the middle of the day (again, that can change from day to day), possibly more frequent urination, off and on bloating (to the point where my weight can fluctuate up to 2kg's in a day) and I've been hungrier (but it's been pretty cold down here and that could be the Prednisone anyway).
Now, all these symptoms I've just described can be attributed to all the hormones I'm taking (8 estrogen tablets a day, 8 progesterone tablets a day, 2x Crinone gel daily and 1xProgesterone Pessay a day) so am not getting overly excited about them, but the one symptom I am having that I'm unsure about is the increase in CM. It started around 5dp4dt and my CM has become heavier (it's a clear/wet type of discharge) so, of course, I'm using more pantyliners than I normally do. I've also noticed (when I was in the shower getting rid of the Crinone build up) that my cervix seems to be sitting quite low inside (mind you, I was in a squatting position in the shower) and it feels slightly softer (at least, I think it does, it's not like I'm poking around "down there" all day, every day!!!LOL)...I don't know if either of those things mean anything and again, the increase in CM could be a side effect of the Crinone/Pessary.....just wanted to document for posterity
Any thoughts on that Mrs P or any other ladies reading???? Am not getting my hopes up though, just so you know.....It's just puzzling me as to why. So, 8 days down and another 7 days until the moment of truth.....BT day. Am feeling pretty relaxed about it all this time around and am just taking it in my stride for the moment. I think the anxiety will start to kick in toward the end of this week.
Ok, am off for now everyone. Hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend. It's a beautiful day here today (though, it's cold), so will go and have a cuppa and read the paper for a bit and catch some rays on the deck outside until it's time to give myself the Pregnyl booster then it's off to the Chemist Wharehouse to restock the myriad of drugs I'm on!!!
Until next time, take care, and here's some more for us all!!!!!........
Last edited by BlondeinBrisvegas; 16-06-2013 at 10:32.
16-06-2013 14:47 #104
TMI ALERT UPDATE.......
Ok, when I changed my pantyliner after lunch (around 1pm or not long thereafter), I decided to have a bit of a prod and a poke around to check out colour/consistency of CM. It looked whitish/lotiony (like really watered down milk colour wise maybe???...definately not bright white like the Crinone gel etc and not thick like that either..... it was a thin consistency).
Anyhoo, I inserted the Crinone gel at about 8am this morning, so figured my body had well and truly absorbed it by 1pm. My aim here is to try and see what kind of CM/discharge (whatever you want to call it) is going on in my nether regions so I can try to determine what's going on and possible causes.
Just thought I'd give a TMI update for anyone interested....... oh, and feel free to throw in any opinions you may have ladies..........all input appreciated......
Last edited by BlondeinBrisvegas; 16-06-2013 at 14:51.
16-06-2013 18:07 #105Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
Hi there my darlings,
Thank you all so much for your comforting thoughts, words and hugs. TBH not feeling that bad and have been pottering in the garden, catching up on some work stuff and have started on rennos to our spare bedrooms today… so will be knee deep in carpet samples by the end of the week.
Had some good chats with DP and BFF and am really just going to take away the positives from this cycle in terms of what I might do/not do in the future (ie lessons learned). In many ways I feel like I grieved for this cycle after I had such a s!#t result at EPU and dismal fertilisation – my expectations were never high and realistically I felt like BFN was an inevitable outcome. At any rate, I’d much prefer a BFN straight up than a miscarriage in a few weeks… sooo much more devastating.
The most frustrating thing is feeling like I will be in a holding pattern wishing away the year for the next couple of months until I can cycle again which will most likely be Aug/Sept… I am so over counting down days!
Blonde Goodness me, you sound like you are having signs and symptoms all over the shop. Yes lots of them can be attributed to the meds but even on the meds I can say that in hindsight I certainly felt I had more signs in Dec (I dismissed them all though because of the meds) than this time round – increased urination and twinges near the ovary, in particular, so I reckon it’s looking very good for you girl - I say embrace hope with all your heart and soul . Sorry I can’t help with the discharge symptoms, I don’t really know anything much about that – but am hoping it's a good thing . Have you been tempted by the POAS yet? Sending bunches and bunches of this your way …. Only 7 more sleeps to go girl - so close - you know I'm counting down the days along with you...
Mrs P Thanks for the details re the masseuse - she sounds wonderful… much appreciated
Hope I think the HCG of 3 was most likely still the left over from the Pregnyl as doc said it can take up to 7 days for the booster to leave your system – and BT was right on 7 days since my last booster. Yes, I recently had a bioposy for NK cells and all fine there but was taking Prednisone and Clexane anyway as a precaution this cycle as I think this also helps to calm any inflammation from adenomyosis which I do have. My heart goes out to you, you have been on quite an IVF journey – 18 full stim cycles. I can’t begin to imagine the toll that has taken on you emotionally, not to mention physically and financially. My thoughts are with you for the ultimate outcome from this cycle.
Hi Lazza if you are following along.
Till next time ladies....
Last edited by Domiffy; 16-06-2013 at 18:13.
17-06-2013 06:15 #106
BinB - I definitely had increased CM in the early stages of pregnancy with my DS but am not sure that I noticed this with my other pregnancies. I have never used the pessaries before so don't know if this might change things down there? I hear you about the crinone buildup. That would have to be my least favourite medication. In my last cycle I was on 3 per day and it was disgusting. This cycle I will be on 3 x 400mg pessaries, to help calm the NK cells down following transfer, if we get that far. Fingers crossed your symptoms are there because at least one of your little embryos have snuggled down deep and you are pregnant
Dommify - Just thought I would ask because it took us a long time to get a correct diagnosis. I am glad that you have done the test and that your counts are fine. What stimulation drugs did Wazza have you on? Did you do 600iu Menopur alternating with Gonal F or straight Menupur? I have heard that combining the two gets a lot less eggs, which I must say I am dreading as we usually only get 6 anyway. Have you thought about what you want to try differently next cycle. Sorry if it is too soon to be asking you these questions.
Thanks for your well wishes, we have been with a couple of useless FS but have had lots of testing done now and think we know what our immune issues are. I took a massive break of 18 months as I really needed it and this is our first cycle ever using an immune protocol, Intralipids, clexane, dexemethasone, and the other supplements and meds Wazza uses. I just hope that I can produce enough embryos now to give the immune treatment a chance to work.
I also accidentally gave myself 10 times the dose of Lucrin on Friday night due to using the wrong bloody needle, so hopefully I haven't messed up this cycle.
Have fun with the renovations Dommify, I always like having something to throw myself into following a BFN
Hi Mrs P and Lazza
17-06-2013 08:30 #107Junior Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
Hi everyone and thanks for being so welcoming!
Sounds like a good idea to contact Warren and see what the go is with Interstate patients. It looks like they have an affilication with IVF Australia in Sydney so maybe I can work something out so I can minmise actual time I need to spend in QLD each cycle.
Thanks again guys!
17-06-2013 10:09 #108
Hello Domiffy Love.........
Sounds like your head's in a good space girl. Am glad to see you looking forward and already having a plan in place in terms of applying the positives from this cycle to your next one. You're definately on the right track there in terms of "lessons learned' love. Totally agree with you that a BFN straight up would be better than a miscarriage later on down the track (not that I'd know, but can only imagine) and unfortunately, you're the voice of experience in that regard.
I know, there's nothing worse than having to wait months to go again for whatever reason. Painstakingly grinding down the days until you can start another cycle, and knowing (for me anyway) that the only time I was ever going to even have a chance of falling preganant was when I was cycling. Because of DP's obstruction, there will never be a "surprise BFP" for me.....EVER.... But thank god, you've got your reno's,garden and work to make the time go by faster love.....I hope it flies by for you!!!
Thanks for your imput r.e. CM and good luck with you cycle!!!! Keep us posted!!
Glad to be of some assistance. Good luck in finding a FS to help you closer to home!!!
AFM.......9dp4dt (13dpo).....TMI Alert......
Yes Domiffy love, been tempted to POAS and when I was at the Chemist Wharehouse yesterday restocking the meds I'd run out of, I grabbed some FRER tests and decided I'd take a leaf out of your book and start POAS from this morning and seeing what happens.
Woke up and tested around 4.45am and got a faint positive. I must say, I felt quite downhearted at that as although I knew it was going to be positive, I had it in my mind that if I was pregnant, surely the line (by 13dpo) would be coming up darker??? I haven't told DP that I'm POAS, so put a brave face on things until I'd got him out the door and off to work then I had a bit of a cry as I'm not feeling very confident at all about things anymore plus in the bathroom light, the line looked pretty faint.
A couple of hours later, I decided to check the HPT I did this morning against the one I did last year when I had the chemical (which I did at 10dp5dt) just to compare the lines. I think the one this morning was only a smidgen darker and in the proper light of day isn't as faint as I first thought this morning. Granted, the line's not so dark it's screaming out at me, just not as faint as it first appeared under the bathroom lights this morning (why am I even doing this FFS??? It makes no sense whatsoever.....I must be losing the plot!!!.....sigh......).
Symptoms wise, I started having AF type cramps at about 8-8.30am this morning (coming and going), they're not strong, but definately of the AF variety and nothing like the niggly pains I've been getting in the last week. The inside of my vagina is swollen and engorged like it usually is before AF arrives so am not feeling very confident about things at all today. In normal circumstances, AF would be due today or tomorrow, plus I remember last year when I had the chemical, I was running to the toilet ALL the time day and night and I'm not doing that this time plus although my boobs are swollen and enlarged, they're not as sore as I'm expecting that they should be if I was pregnant. I'm not hopeful at this point.
I'll just keep on testing everyday (they say morning is best, but do you Domiffy or any other ladies following think that's the best time to test??Or is it more about the concentration of urine in which case, how many hours should you wait to test???) and figure if I'm on the road to a BFN, eventually the line will get fainter and I'll test out in a couple of days and if I'm on the road to a BFP (which I strongly doubt) the line will keep appearing and logic tells me it should get stronger and darker in colour as the days go by, but never having had Pregnyl booster injections before, I don't know if my theory will hold true.
If there are any other ladies out there that are following the thread that have used Pregnyl boosters and have POAS to a BFP, can you please let me know if I'm on the right track with my theory????
Anyhoo.....am feeling a bit low about it all today, so am off to have a cuppa and go warm my bones in the sun for a while. For some reason when I'm clicking on the icon's, nothings coming up on my post, but know I'm sending lots of Babydust everyone's way and cuddles for you Domiffy love and I haven't forgotten about you either MRS P........hope all's well in your world!!!
Until next time everyone!!!!.........(insert smile's, cuddles and waves here!!!...Come on BH, get your act together!!! LOL.......Maybe I should start practicing what I preach??? LOFL!!!!)
Last edited by BlondeinBrisvegas; 17-06-2013 at 13:27.
17-06-2013 13:49 #109
Got to run.
17-06-2013 15:23 #110Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
Blonde You know it’s still very early days - so take the strength of those pee stick lines with a teeny tiny grain of sand. In Dec last year my BFP on the dipsticks were all very faint and my 1st beta at 18dpo was 312 so I would have expected stronger looking positives than I was getting day before BT... This time round I had my strongest line the day after my last pregnyl booster after testing first morning wee which gradually faded over subsequent days. They say morning wee is best to test with as it should be more concentrated so presumably that is when the line should also be strongest but still so many variables with the strength of those pee stick lines – how you metabolise the hcg, how much of it shows up in your wee, time of day, which sort of test you use, variability between test batches etc so don’t lose heart, you are still having lots of symptoms and loads of peoples say that even having AF symptoms is a symptom of pregnancy ! Now my dear keep the faith, kick back and stop stressing about those pee sticks otherwise I might just have to come down there and confiscate them from you… Now have one of these And have some of this …
Hope You must be so relieved to finally be addressing the cause of your implantation issues. I can’t imagine how much frustration you must feel at it taking so long to get to this point. Sending you boatload of for your current cycle… As for what I have learned from this cycle... you might be sorry you asked.... apologies in advance for what has turned into an epic me post...
Lesson (1) trust your gut instinct. I was prescribed 600iu of Menopur for stims by WDA (seems to be his stock standard approach to older ladies/DOR)… I queried his choice of stim drug for me as there has been a question mark over whether I am PCO… (symptoms.. lifetime of extremely irregular periods – sometimes only 3-4 per year - and annovulation and very well documented history of high LH to FSH ratio, I’m a lean PCO tho with no known insulin resistance issues) so I thought it odd that he had prescribed me a drug with LH in it as there is volumes of info on the web that the developing eggs of women with PCO and/or DOR (regardless of age) are vulnerable to the effects of too much LH… a little is good too much at the wrong time can increase aneuploidy in the eggs. Due to my concerns WDA offered to take back the Menopur and swap for Gonal F but DP and I decided to give it a try and stop second guessing the FS – we had after all sought his opinion as an expert in his field.
I also asked at the time whether I could alternate Gonal F and Menopur but was told by his nurse that Medicare would not cover the cost of two types of FSH stim drugs, so alternating drugs to reduce exposure to LH was not an option for me at the time of my cycle. Since then, however, I have read that a number of WDAs patients are now alternating with Gonal F and Menopur during stims to reduce exposure to LH.
TBH I find it interesting, to say the least, that he has recently started alternating stims drugs for other ladies since I questioned him about the potential adverse effects of too much exposure to LH back in early May after my initial consult.
I actually felt awful during stims this time around and I normally don’t have any side effects at all while stimming. The first few days of stims I could barely get out of bed and tho I can’t be sure I think my body had a hard time processing such a high dose esp for the first few days (I’m only little)… This cycle is the first time I have had ‘empty follicles’ and immature eggs – during my previous cycle in December FS was very happy with the quality of my eggs and embryologist said they injected very well which is a telling sign of quality (ie there should be a little resistance when injecting but not too much)… WDA does not believe that high doses of stims affects egg quality but there is plenty of evidence online to the contrary.
So lesson (2) In my case more drugs has not correlated with an increase in numbers or increase in quality of eggs and I believe it has had the opposite effect. At any rate I get roughly the same number of eggs each time I cycle regardless of stims dose (previous cycles were 225 and 300 gonal), so future cycles will be at a lower dose of fsh – maybe 350-400. But I am glad to have tried the higher dose as I would have always wondered whether this would have increased my egg haul.
Lesson (3) The Nitrodur patches WDA prescribed also made me feel **** and should not really be used for people that have low blood pressure, which I have, so I won’t be using those again either.
One good thing is that my follicles grew very evenly this time around – I had 4x18mm, 1x16 & 1x14mm the day before trigger which I was happy with in terms of eveness – I had a dominant follicle that raced away in my Dec cycle and I think it was because stims drugs were started a little late on day 3 after one follicle had already got going… So Lesson (4) is that I need to get onto stims drugs asap on day 2 to try and avoid dominant follicles and promote even growth in the future…
Lesson (5) I think I need a higher trigger 10,000 HCG to help with maturation of the eggs, this time round I only triggered with 6,500 which may have also contributed to poor outcome. I also think that delaying EPU a day or two might have helped with maturation but I was cycling remotely in Cairns and WDAs decision when to trigger is based on a third party’s interpretation of follicle size – and this can be very operator dependent and also dependent on the quality of the ultrasound machine.
Lesson (6) I am not interested in cycling in Brisbane again and next cycle will be locally back at my old clinic in Cairns – much less stressful logistically and financially.
I have always found it really frustrating to get such low numbers of eggs because, in spite of my age, on paper I look like I should be a good responder. My AMH 2 years ago was 22 (no doubt it would be significantly lower than this now), Day 2/3 FSH ranges between 5-8 and my antral follicle count during my assessment cycle in March last year was 15+ follicles either side. Again in August last year prior to my FET cycle in September my AFC was 10 on the right and 7 on the left but I never seem to get remotely close to anything like this during a cycle but both of those AFC counts were after taking DHEA for several months… but I have never quite got the timing of 3-4 months of taking DHEA and timing of stim cycle right tho as my old FS would like me to take breaks from DHEA from time to time so that the levels did not build up too much in my system as DHEA converts to testosterone and too much testosterone can also be a problem for PCO and can adversely affect egg quality (testosterone levels were quite high in August last year after taking DHEA for several months, so I took a break from the DHEA before my Dec cycle).
I did not take DHEA for my most recent cycle either as after my m/c in Jan I lost a lot of hair and couldn’t face the prospect of the DHEA causing more hair loss. I am back on the DHEA now and will take this for the next three months until my next cycle which will hopefully make a difference. I will also continue to take supps CoEnzyme Q10, fresh royal jelly, l-arginine, megafol, pre natal multi, vit E, B12, B multi, fish oil and will also keep taking my magical Wuji-bai feng balls prescribed to me by my acupuncturist. These little balls have been absolutely phenomenal for me. I have been taking them since Nov last year and they seem to have balanced my hormones and have regularised my cycle to 27 days – they have been amazing. For the frist time in my life I am even getting EWCM around ovulation time so I am presumably ovulating regularly (too bad my tubes are blocked!) So I can only hope that a few more months of stable hormones (instead of wacky LH levels) will provide a good environment for my follicles to be developing in. I will also add Saizen during my next cycle and testosterone gel.
There is a lady – Sariele – on the June/July thread that has just had a phenomenal EPU result after several dismal cycles last year where she was lucky to get one or two to fertilise. This time round she was on 600 Gonal F and took DHEA in conjunction with testosterone gel for 3.5 months, saizen during stims and a bunch of other supplements and it seems to have really improved her egg numbers, quality and fertilisation rate (mind you she is only 32 so age is on her side). So far she has 10 embies from 15 follies at day 3 ranging from 5-12 cells and I am hoping that things continue to work out for her with lots of lovely day 5 blasties. I have a feeling that there will be lots of ladies following her protocol soon…
Other things… I will really just be focusing on increasing blood flow to uterus as declining blood flow to ovaries as we age is one of the things that can contribute to a drop in quality of eggs – so regular acupuncture, regular exercise/yoga (tho not too strenuous), getting back into regular vegie/green juices for extra micro nutrients… good diet, avoiding caffeine, sugar, gluten and all that other dietary stuff which I have pretty much been doing for the last couple of years anyway. So that’s my plan. I’m sure it’s way more information than you wanted/needed but it was actually quite cathartic to write it all down and get it off my chest so thanks for asking… In the end goodness knows if any of this will make any difference in the long run as I must face the fact that age is the most significant factor in this scenario, as we all well know fertility declines at a rapid pace after 40… but I will give these old eggs another couple chances but will then have to think seriously about whether we continue to throw good money after bad eggs but until that time comes I can only hope and try…
Hi Mrs P and Lazza
Last edited by Domiffy; 17-06-2013 at 16:10.
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