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  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Bec~ View Post
    Sorry I'm not quite sure what you mean and I skipped over any posts or links with remotely distressing information.
    Not sure when it was but Lambjam made the point that post 24 or 25 weeks what happens to a viable fetus is not up to the mother - ie she cannot kill it once it is born alive outside her body. Another poster queried this and said that wasn't her understanding and posted a link which I couldn't bring myself to read. It seemed though that LJ's position wasn't quite right??

    That's the issue I can't get to the bottom of and it's critical to my views. Ie if I attend for an abortion at 26 weeks and the baby would survive if given life saving treatment - would that happen or would it be denied, or would the fetus be "dealt with" while in utero.

    And I am speaking entirely of the case of an abortion of an otherwise viable baby (not one with a life threatening medical condition).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinderella82 View Post
    So to answer the question with as scarce as detail as possible, a late term abortion, the foetus will either have its life terminated in utero to make sure it is not born living (for eg, a lethal injection). Or it will be born alive & be left to no longer be alive any more. Or a D & E will be performed on the foetus in utero & it will not survive the process.
    Ok thanks. That's what I assumed was in the link.

  2. #392
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    Where are you getting your information from? I don't want links, but if you could name the orgnasations you are getting your info from I would appreciate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinderella82 View Post
    This is a really difficult thing to clarify without being too graphic. You cannot explain a procedure such as abortion in detail without giving detail. I think it has a huge part to play in the confusion and misinformation and ignorance surrounding abortion. And again, people honestly do not want to know. Generally people don't want to know what happens to he baby or how it dies, or as a pp put it earlier, 'why does it matter how it dies?'. I am genuinely shocked that people who are so pro choice know so little about abortion & the details of what actually happens.


    So to answer the question with as scarce as detail as possible, a late term abortion, the foetus will either have its life terminated in utero to make sure it is not born living (for eg, a lethal injection). Or it will be born alive & be left to no longer be alive any more. Or a D & E will be performed on the foetus in utero & it will not survive the process.
    I think this is why many people are anti-abortion. Not because try don't want the woman to have choice over her body, but it is devastating to know what happens to these tiny little babies. When I am pregnant, I feel like my uterus should be the safest place that my baby will ever be. I find it devastating that so many babies are denied the comfort an safety of their mothers uterus.

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  4. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    Where are you getting your information from? I don't want links, but if you could name the orgnasations you are getting your info from I would appreciate it.
    If that's wrong what does happen? I've tried to educate myself on this but I either find pro choice or pro life information which isn't reliable. Wiki actually has a half decent explanation with references and it's not dissimilar to what was posted, but it's wiki.

  5. #394
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    lambjam is offline Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Not sure when it was but Lambjam made the point that post 24 or 25 weeks what happens to a viable fetus is not up to the mother - ie she cannot kill it once it is born alive outside her body. Another poster queried this and said that wasn't her understanding and posted a link which I couldn't bring myself to read. It seemed though that LJ's position wasn't quite right??
    Oh I don't assume to know what actually happens. I was trying to reconcile being pro-choice while being unable to stomach late-term abortion for issues such as gender. My talk was all in theory, I know nothing of the practice.

    I keep thinking of The Merchant of Venice... That he was entitled to a pound of flesh, but taking a life wasn't part of the bargain. I think if you're going to argue concepts like bodily autonomy and what it is to be pro-choice, you can only take it as far as it affects a woman's own body. Yes she should have the right to say she doesn't wish to carry a child to term, she's not an incubator. But that's where I draw the line.
    Last edited by lambjam; 01-05-2013 at 23:20.

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    It's a very tough thing to think about. If a baby is born after say 25/26 weeks and is a late term abortion but for non medical reasons I.e. the baby is healthy, say for the reason that its not the desired sex, I don't understand why doctors are not under a duty of care to save that baby no matter what the parents wishes. Once that baby takes a breath, it should be entitled to a chance at life in my opinion.

    As for the pro choice/pro life fence, if it had to be black and white and to truly be pro choice, you had to be ok with late term abortion, you'd find a lot of people on the other side of the fence. I think when the baby is at a gestation where it could survive without the mother, it becomes a whole different issue.

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    I don't think anyone is saying that you can't support abortion only until a certain point... Just that this isn't being pro choice. There are shades of grey Inbetween pro choice and pro life... But to be truly pro choice you have to allow the woman all the choices... You cannot stipulate exceptions. If you do, you're not longer pro choice... You're somewhere between pro choice and anti abortion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine Grace View Post
    As for the pro choice/pro life fence, if it had to be black and white and to truly be pro choice, you had to be ok with late term abortion, you'd find a lot of people on the other side of the fence.
    I think even in this thread, people are questioning a pro choice stance if that has to include accepting late term abortion.

    I think of all the debated subjects on this forum, both child related or not, this is the one I struggle with the most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying that you can't support abortion only until a certain point... Just that this isn't being pro choice. There are shades of grey Inbetween pro choice and pro life... But to be truly pro choice you have to allow the woman all the choices... You cannot stipulate exceptions. If you do, you're not longer pro choice... You're somewhere between pro choice and anti abortion.
    You are right, there are shades of grey and while I thought I was pro choice after reading this thread I realise I'm actually not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I think even in this thread, people are questioning a pro choice stance if that has to include accepting late term abortion.

    I think of all the debated subjects on this forum, both child related or not, this is the one I struggle with the most.
    Yup I agree. Especially knowing people with preemie babies at 25/26 weeks. It's a very hard ethical conundrum.

  12. #400
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    I still consider myself pro-choice. I simply don't believe that in ending her pregnancy a woman can insist her foetus be killed as part of the bargain.

    How this works practically is another matter I suppose. I realise I'm perhaps focussing too much on finding the theory and logic I'm comfortable with, without considering the real world.


 

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