I'm catholic, DH isn't but his mother is and father is Church of England and were both baptised/christened. My inlaws never baptised DH or my BIL, although they wish they did.
We're baptising DD. It will be up to her later on what she chooses to do. I was baptised and had catholic schooling so I did communion and confirmation. I don't go to church but I respect certain family traditions that I've been brought up with.
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17-04-2013 06:36 #11-
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17-04-2013 06:54 #12
I was baptised anglican, DH wasn't baptised. We had the girls baptised because it was important to my family and I and my DH supported this.
Even if a child is baptised young, I don't think it takes away their choices when it comes to religion later in life.
17-04-2013 07:08 #13
I'm catholic, df is church of England although refers to himself as atheist. We have all our boys baptized. Although I'm not a practicing catholic (as in don't attend church) I still refer to myself as catholic and believe in majority of the values.
I am not going to force my boys to believe, or make them attend mass if they do not wish to. However they will be going to catholic schools, and I will take them to mas etc if they would like to be going.
Df was not phased either way, he left the decision up to me.
17-04-2013 07:11 #14
I'm an atheist so neither of my kids are baptised anything. My step kids are because DH, although atheist, didn't think much of it when exW wanted it done. He's regretted it since as she also put them (against his wishes) in a religious school and now they say things from time to time that are reflective of their indoctrination- like telling my dad that my mum was in hell (2 days after she died) because she didn't attend church and a few other interesting comments. On the other hand, it's led to lots of interesting discussion, I suppose!
Sorry, just sharing experience there, not sure that will help. I think generally in a family law sense the consensus is usually to not baptise and allow the child to decide. I can understand your friends position and think she should stick to her guns. Atheism is an entirely valid viewpoint, no less valid that religion is- some would say more! (atheist humour there, not trying to start a theological debate) I did stumble on this line that might be of some help to her, if only for inspiration:
While baptism will do no harm to your child, it conveys no benefit either. There is no reason that any parents should have to compromise on their principles, lie, and make false promises by partaking in a ritual of a religion they do not follow. Pointing out the dishonesty or offensiveness of such an act should disarm even the most rabid of proselytizers.
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17-04-2013 07:31 #15Senior Member
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- Oct 2012
Does your friend really understand what baptism actually is? Its not an act of a parent committing a child to something without their agreement, or forcing decisions upon the child about how they are going to believe.
A baptism is a welcoming ceremony to a community, yes this community is religious and yes they have their traditions and values and what not. This is the time that you provide the child with the tools, information and ideals of what this community is about.
At a childs confirmation is the time that they then accept this for themselves. It is their choice.
For those non believers, a baptism is merely a child being splashed on the head with water, right? If you believe it is all hogwash then why is it such an issue?
I understand their are the zealots out their that indoctrinate their children into kinda crazy ideas and that can be off putting for some who dont have any other view into religion. However, from my experience, both from my own religious upbringing and my extensive volunteer work amongst other religious groups, they are foremost a community. A support, a network.
From my experience in this situation (DH is an atheist) when it really came down to the open and honest conversation, he didnt want to be left out, so he didnt want to let it happen. He had this idea that DS and I would get all exclusive becquse we shared something he didnt. Which at the end of the day was just the opposite of what I wanted to do. After he undertood that he would be included in all those things and decisions, he was on board.
Maybe the reasons are more than 'i dont believe and i wont let this happen because of that'
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17-04-2013 07:45 #16
Is it him that wants baby baptised or is it his family telling him behind the seens baby is to be baptised? My husband is Catholic although not practising and has told me he thinks it is a load of so and so. Me I am not baptised at all. His mother attends church every week and my DH was forced to go until he started dating me when we were in year 10.
DH says they need to be baptised so they don't go to hell, which I think is bullsh!t. Bad people (like MIL) go to hell not good people bc they are not baptised) He only is saying it bc his mother is at him, I mean he thinks it is a load of so and so. He whinged and whined about meetings with the priest while we were getting married and I was only getting married there for him and his family so why should I have had to force him to go there while it was for his mother. I refuse and then nothing is brought up again for a long time. If my children decide later in life to be that is fine I will support them. BUT I think family could be a strong influence with it. All of his brothers and sisters kids are baptised none of our are and they won't be. I think it is hyprocritical to get them baptised if you don't follow. SIL got her children baptised catholic and she follows a different religion yet she was the one takign them to the church things not her catholic husband and that is what it would be for me.
17-04-2013 07:50 #17
What is Baptism?
Q: What is Baptism?
Baptism is the foundation of the whole of Christian life. It is the gateway to life in the Holy Spirit and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Baptism is a one-off event and anyone who has not previously been baptised may seek Baptism. Through Baptism a person is reborn as a daughter or son of God. It is through Baptism that an individual begins his or her formal relationship with Jesus Christ and the Church.
The phrase to baptise means to "plunge" or "immerse". The immersion in water, or alternatively the pouring of water over the person's head, symbolizes the baptised person's union with the death of Jesus. Just as Christ was raised from the dead, the baptised person arises from the water as a "new creature", a member of the Church.
Baptism consists of a person's immersion in water three times or of the pouring of water over the person's head three times, reciting the words, "I baptise you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit .Amen"
Those who have been validily baptised in another Christian tradition and are seeking to enter into full communion with the Catholic Church, do not need to be baptised again.
Baptism in the history of the Church
From the very beginning of the Church, Baptism has been administered and celebrated as the measn b which one becomes a Christian. Indeed, St Peter declared to the crowd on the day of Pentecost, "Repent, and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38)
The first Christians baptised were adults. Them as entire families wanted to become followers of Christ, the Rite of Baptism was adapted to cater for the children and infants of the baptised parents.
The forgiveness of sins
Through Baptism all sins are forgiven. As noted above baptism formalises the Christian's relationship with Jesus Christ. As this relationship grows Jesus joins with and strenhthens the person's own effort in living a full and joyful life and resisting temptation.
Integrated into the Church, The Body of Christ.
Through Baptism, Christians are integrated into the Body of Christ, the Church. Membership of the Church breaks through all the natural or human limits of nations, cultures, races and gender.
A permanent relationship with Christ
Through Baptism, the Holy Spirit seals the Christian as being in a permanent relationship with Christ. The effects of sin may cover the effects of Baptism, but sin, however, cannot erase the sign of God's fideliry. It is for this reason that Baptism is not repeated.
Symbolic materials and symbolic actions that are part of Baptism include being immersed in water or having it poured over oneself, as well as anointing with blessed oil as a sign of setting apart, lighting a candle as a sign of Christ the light of the world and the putting on of a white robe as a sign of new life as a follower of Christ.
Extract from"Call and Response: An Introduction to the Catholic Faith" p76
17-04-2013 08:02 #18
I don't think I would personally be in a relationship very long with someone who was like that. I am an atheist and make that stance quite clear... And like to go on rants about indoctrinating children so I imagine a man with views like that would run a mile. Lol.
DP's family all Christen their kids... They are absolutely not followers of any faith but its something they just do.
I don't care if they end up disappointed but my children with DP won't be following in their footsteps. DP knows this and I think he seems quite okay with it.
I wouldn't compromise in that situation either. I would stand my ground.
17-04-2013 08:41 #19Senior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
I disagree that just because one is athiest the default should be that the child is Baptised. As an athiest, I hate that certain members of the family are trying to indoctrinate my own son and I could just imagine that if I agreed to have him baptised because it "means nothing to me" it would be an extremely slippery slope into allowing them to have even more power over his beliefs than they already have.
I strongly believe that it is up to my DS, and DS alone, that he chooses his own religion. I don't trust that many people would have their child baptised and leave it at that.
17-04-2013 08:48 #20
I was baptised Lutheran, Ex is Catholic. Neither of us go to church. I think we both wouldnt have worried baptising DS except it is his mothers one wish. She doesnt care what religion, she would just love them baptised. I didnt see a problem granting her ONE wish. As her family is more involved in church than my family, I chose to baptise DS as Catholic.
If it is really important to one parent (or grandparent in my case) i personally couldnt not do it.
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