Tell me....is forming an opinion and expressing that opinion - the same as `judging'?

[Guest654]

I don't think there are cliques either.

There are people with whom I often agree, but I'm not just agreeing with them because I like them - I'm agreeing with them because I agree with their point.

There are people with whom I often disagree. But if they said something that I agreed with then I would say so too.

I think most people on here are capable of making their own decisions, rather than nodding along with what someone says 'just' to be in the majority.

The thing is, often the debates on here are pretty black and white. You think this OR you think that. E.g., you think those who smoke while pregnant are selfish/ terrible, OR you think they need help/ support. I'm simplifying it, but many arguments seem to polarise people. I can see that if your view was in the minority you may feel ganged up on - but that doesn't mean you really are. Just that your view is in the minority.

There are also a lot of people on here who regularly comment that they have no opinion on a circumstance without knowing the background. That's fine, but it doesn't always contribute to a debate. I think a lot of the thread starters on here aren't so much about a specific situation, but are more of a 'what if' type thing. E.g., the recent thread about a 5yr old not being allowed on play apparatus. Sure, no one knows the back story, but 'what if' a 5yr just wasn't allowed to play because the parents didn't want her to. Then what?

What I'm getting at is that I think some people approach threads as very literal ("We don't know/ there might be a medical condition") - and then view it as unfair judgment when others approach them more generally ("A 5 yr old should be allowed to play").

Hope I'm making sense. Think I need another cup of tea before I have a decent shot at coherence...

[Benji]

If someone said IRL what some people say about smoking mums, single mums etc etc I firmly believe people would say hang on, that's pretty nasty, have you considered a b or c in the equation? which is what happens here. It only descends into back biting when the member saying outrageous things then loses the plot and says they are being picked on.

I agree - in fact, I do believe the people who sprout offensive statements here probably wouldn't dare form such offensive opinions in a large group of people in which they may be referring to something that several individuals do/are.

[atomicmama]

I've seen a few mentions of cliques. I haven't really noticed any? There are posters that often agree with certain other members, I just assume they have similar values or beliefs/opinions. A clique is a group that has these shared views but also excludes others- I don't think I've seen anyone get "excluded" - I would think that is more being ignored rather than being debated with. There are some people on here that have radically different views to mine on say, vaccination, something I am extremely passionate about. I don't ignore those people and often find while I disagree with them on one topic, I may well agree with them on others- I don't just ignore them and discount their other views because I have one differing viewpoint. Obviously there will be members that we disagree with on more than one thing, that's just life.

Once again you saved me from typing :haha:

And that's a perfect example of what I was going to say. There are some posters that I find myself agreeing with majority of the time. That doesn't mean we're part of a clique, it is what it is... We share similar views in many things.

It goes the other way too. There are others that often have a differing view from me and I may be contionuously quoting them and disagreeing with their posts, but that's all there is to it.

99% of the time I won't aim my words directly at someone, but at their point of view, but if there is an absolutely abhorrent view (there have been two that I recall) I will aim my words directly to that person, but that takes a really disturbing POV for me to get to that stage.

This is a rather vague example, but with the can men go through labour thread yesterday, t was meant to be lighthearted but a small amount of posters took it too serious and I believe some people do that too often, hence the 'you're bullying me' mentality.

[Benji]

I have been accused of being in these 'cliques' and clubs because I am a long-term member and I have felt, on several occasions, that I have said something unfair and boy have I been jumped on !!! If *anyone* here says something that is bound to upset, there are consequences.. I've felt it myself and I do believe that most of the time I deserved it lol.

A lot of the time people responding to the offending statement haven't actually read the responses, so IMO it's not a case of 'bullying' (in fact, often the retaliation is due to the statement being pretty close to bullying itself - singling out of a minority group or whatnot).

[Annabella]

Where people often make mistakes is when they form strong opinions without the full understanding required to back them up.

I agree with this.

We all make judgements or form opinions about situations, but I think people get upset about it and pull the 'you're judging' card when the person expressing those opinions is doing so without a lot of knowledge about the situation. And particularly if they express those opinions in an insensitive way.

An example-
"A woman would be a MUCH (in capital letters) better mum if she didn't have an eating disorder" is very judgmental, yes its an opinion and the author has a 'right' to express it, but without personal experience and/or specific knowledge about the subject, perhaps this opinion might be wrong, and people WILL argue that its wrong. Rightness or wrongness aside, it is HIGHLY insensitive to people reading it who have an eating disorder, and actually not helpful at all to the discussion.

Using emotive language (like 'disgusting') also makes opinions come across as more 'judgmental'.

I think the issue is that people have these strong opinions about things/people- like single mums, welfare, different ways of birthing etc, and they forget that in these 'groups' of people they are judging, are individual women with individual situations, and with real feelings. When you (not you personally OP) say "I'm sick of my taxes supporting single mothers not working", it is essentially saying to every individual single mum reading it that you resent them for not working, without any knowledge of WHY they are not able to work etc, and that can be quite hurtful.

[delirium]

I don't think it's fair to completely dismiss someones feelings though, perhaps if they are feeling picked on it should be considered why.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm dismissing people feeling picked on generally. I do somewhat agree with you, attacking people, even if they are saying pretty out there things isn't acceptable.

I'm trying hard not to give examples of particular topics and threads so as not to break the rules of gossiping. But I have noticed in the last year, a clear pattern. Someone who is well known for saying pretty judgmental stuff will say something pretty nasty and full on, people do start out relatively calm and challenge the thought process not the person. The person gets agro, says they are getting picked on, and starts attacking. People then get sick of trying to reason and retaliate. Not right but somewhat understandable.

What is being missed here, is just as someone is allowed to have a provocative opinion, others are allowed to have an opinion against it. Otherwise what I see is a few people going thread to thread causing trouble and derailing then demanding that no one is allowed to say anything or it means they are being bullied.

[lambjam]

^^^^
What she said

[sweetsugardumplin']

Okay, so what I don't get it how people believe it's acceptable to make rather personal remarks about your character - based on your opinion!

We all have strong values and beliefs - and the purpose of a forum is to discuss these, and yes there will always be a differing point of view and opinion - and that's a good thing.

What I struggle with is the name calling and assumptions about me as a person.....if you don't agree with me fine, then just say `I don't agree with you because..........' why make it personal?

In the Chrissie Swan thread I had one member (whose been around for less than a year!!!) tell me all sorts of things about my character. And another pp who called me arrogant, high and mighty - but then suggests in this thread not to take it personally - because she doesn't really think I am those things - then why say it!!

[Benji]

I think people's opinions are what we should mostly be judged on. I do agree with you though that I cringe when somebody says something and another member will say "you're an idiot" for example. I do believe if somebody says something rude or whatever, if people responded without the name-calling it would make their response have much more weight as opposed to giving the other person reason to retaliate.

Like delirium though, I have seen people say AWFUL things and I get why people respond in the manner that they do as they've been provoked.

I don't think you deserved what you got yesterday though, I have never thought of you as high and mighty or thinking you're perfect. You don't give me that impression at all.

[delirium]

Okay, so what I don't get it how people believe it's acceptable to make rather personal remarks about your character - based on your opinion!

We all have strong values and beliefs - and the purpose of a forum is to discuss these, and yes there will always be a differing point of view and opinion - and that's a good thing.

What I struggle with is the name calling and assumptions about me as a person.....if you don't agree with me fine, then just say `I don't agree with you because..........' why make it personal?

In the Chrissie Swan thread I had one member (whose been around for less than a year!!!) tell me all sorts of things about my character. And another pp who called me arrogant, high and mighty - but then suggests in this thread not to take it personally - because she doesn't really think I am those things - then why say it!!

Well I don't think attacks are ok on either side of the coin. You've been around a long time, and while I don't share your opinions on Chrissy and felt you were maybe being a bit harsh on her, I don't think you are arrogant or one of those trouble makers I have talked about.

Ages ago I got called a birth nut bc i pointed out that I didn't care whether women had non medically required c/s, just that they should know the risks. Someone jumped on me writing in caps HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY DON'T KNOW THE RISKS. I think I was also called arrogant too lol I thought meh, I'm no birth nut. Water off a ducks back.