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  1. #341
    headoverfeet's Avatar
    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    I have known a few unfortunately. "I pay tax, give me something". I just don't understand it, why would anybody WANT to need assisance? The day I walked into centrelink to cancel my single parenting payments was one of the greatest days of my life.
    Quote Originally Posted by kw123 View Post
    Just to play devil's advocate a bit, those who pay tax and want something don't want "assistance" as such, they just want a bit extra in their pocket. A nice to have, not a need to have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    yeah...we all pay tax though *shrug*. I do think people get to a point where they should be well and truly self sufficient without govt assistance.
    Quote Originally Posted by kw123 View Post
    I know what you mean but I don't think this will ever happen. Citizens of a country are always going to want "something" from the Govt especially when a large portion of their salary is deducted.

    Anecdotaly, I know a person who was low income for years and couldn't understand why "high" earners would ever want anything from the Govt. Then her circumstances changed and she earned more and paid a lot more tax as well as not receiving XYZ benefit. She then understood
    I think a lot of these people don't see themselves relying on the public system much? They use private hospitals and schools they don't receive much if any assistance etc. I guess they feel like they are supporting a system which does not support them much in return. I think this is where the 'my taxes' thing comes from. Of course we know everyone benefits from taxes in some way or another I guess they just focus on the big things.

    I admit I get uncomfortable when I see 30% of hubbies income going to tax

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    Default Abbott to axe school bonus if he gets in

    And also to add the economy of countries such as Norway is much more dependent on taxes as they have very little opportunity for primary production and export. They are geographically small, small populations, isolated so high costs to import goods, much of the land is not arable and half the country is pitch black for 6 months a year.

    Because many things are funded directly through tax revenue there is more a collective mentality of ownership (ie you collectively own your local school, hospital etc). This is very different to a country like Australia where we have massive income from mining and farming. The bulk of the population don't directly contribute to that source of income (ie most of us aren't farmers) so we don't feel like we actually 'own' government resources (or if we do we are thinking of it differently as it wasn't our personal dollar which necessarily contribute to it)

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  4. #343
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    I still receive Medicare when using my private healthcare and private hospital. The govt still supports private education and private healthcare (in fact, I am given an odd $100 per month toward my private healthcare - not to mention the levy at tax time). People *are* receiving it, I guess some just don't think about it that way and begrudge the little assistance others receive - just in different forms

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  6. #344
    headoverfeet's Avatar
    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    I still receive Medicare when using my private healthcare and private hospital. The govt still supports private education and private healthcare (in fact, I am given an odd $100 per month toward my private healthcare - not to mention the levy at tax time). People *are* receiving it, I guess some just don't think about it that way and begrudge the little assistance others receive - just in different forms
    Very true but I would argue that should you receive medicare for certain private hospital choices? I think these PHI and medicare levy's have just increased the cost of PHI. Look at what happened to the charges made by private OB's when it kicked in! I think that is a topic for a different thread though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jellyfishie View Post
    I suspect you may be thinking of Norway? They have one of (if not the) highest tax rates in the world. They are extremely socialist and there are many social benefits (paid parental leave for 12 months+, unemployment paid at your previous salary rate for a substantial amount of time if you lose your job, free tertiary education etc)

    However, being socialist, they do not have the 'welfare mentality' which is present within a subsection of the population in many other western countries. Their collective is not that it is their 'right' to get payments, these payments are a safety net for hard times. At all other times they expect to be productive members of society who contribute through employment etc.

    Even our 'left' is a lot more 'right' than theirs, (ie our left is still pretty conservative compared to other socialist countries)
    No definately Sweden, maybe Norway is the same?
    Maybe if someone is from either they can explain it better.

    But I don't really see any of that happening here anyway, I'm not sure I believe or trust the government to take most of my wage and re-distribute it as they see fit. I
    'd happily pay more tax if our schools and healthcare improved. How many parents do I see sending their kids to private schools because the public near them is just not good enough, that alone is a struggle for alot of families, or something as simple as going to an emergency room and actually seeing a dr in less than 5-7hours.
    I don't see any of it improving. Liberal doesn't even want a new broadband network.

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    Not to mention the other things taxes contribute to:

    Libraries, roads, sports ovals, police and law enforcement, etc etc

    We all benefit from taxes either directly or indirectly.

    I will never understand why *some* people get upset about contributing more tax... isn't it a good thing to be in a position to do so? I would have thought it would feel good to be helping so many people? Or is it more a gripe with the way the government *manages* funds?

    This is not directed at anyone here btw, just a general vibe I get from a lot of friends IRL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    I agree that Australia's "left" is more right than true left is.

    I remember doing one of those "test" things last federal election, and I was more left than our "left" parties.

    As bad as it sounds, I think Australians, overall, are just too self-focused to ever be truly left-leaning.
    I think you've nailed it Sassy Australians are very self-focused. It's always about 'what's in it for me?' sadly.

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    There's been so many good points on both sides since I was on lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
    But benefits like the SKB do nothing to address the real issues and just add costs associated with administration. Parents can't afford the extras which go along with education lets fix that, doctors don't bulk bill fix that, housing is not affordable fix that. Don't fall for the governments (all of them) treating us like chumps.

    I go back to my original premise and that is the whole system needs an overhaul.
    Completely agree with you 100% was just about to say why, then saw Benji's response and she was more succinct than me

    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    Totally agree with this, but in the meantime school needs have to be made accessible to all. Which is why I think it's a step backward that the bonus may be taken away.
    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    Absolutely. But wouldn't you agree that for many (perhaps the majority of?) people who receive the bonus, school already was accessible? That it was just as it's named, a bonus?

    I would hope there is no-one here who would begrudge a child the items essential for school, and I would be more than happy to see such a bonus targeted at those who genuinely can't afford such items. But for the most part it goes to people who could afford them anyway! Yes back to school time is traditionally tighter than usual, but that's what budgeting is all about. Dare I say that's what having children is all about! (Once more, I speak about those families who could afford the items in any case.)
    So maybe the threshold needs to be lowered? so that only the most needy get it? like 40k or something. I'm not sure what the answer is, and I believe the costs of education, both public and private are getting crazy. But as Benji said, until we solve it, this needs to be a band aid. It's not best case scenario but to change the whole way our education dept is funded is going to take years of change and supluses I'm afraid. I also suspect the govt believes this is cheaper. Several parents in the other thread about the costs of older children said the bonus didn't even cover their costs. So to make education completely free is going to cost many times over what they are spending on this bonus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    Very true but I would argue that should you receive medicare for certain private hospital choices?
    Well then we can't win lol. Either people want assistance or they don't - they're given it through various means, even middle-high income families (I know the rebate cuts back at $168k but I'm fairly sure we're all entitled to medicare - and we all have a choice to go via public healthcare/education).

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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    Let me be clear: I cannot abide Tony Abbott. But I have to ask... is everyone genuinely happy with everything continuing as it has? Do you really think Labor deserve to get back in?

    Personally I become more dispirited every passing year. Much as I'd love to have a party that I felt passionately about, no one represents me
    I've been a staunch labor voter for 16 years. Bc of what the party stands for. Truth be told, I think Gilland hasn't done a great job, but not a terrible job. I think Tony has an excellent ability to jump in on every little mistake and capitalise, do press conferences and I think many of the public are swayed by his rhetoric. My real choice is Rudd. he was a good leftie PM.

    So greens it will be this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    Because these are socialist initiatives, and it's unlikely the Australia public would support that. At this stage anyway
    Sadly I want to move to Sweden. It shows how well socialism works. Finland is top of the list in the world for education. Free medical in every thing. Free education. I think a year of PPL or is it 18 months? they have brilliant bfing rates (I believe directly linked to PPL as well as free LC's etc). Then you look at America, fiercely capitalist and look at the state they are, and many other countries are in.
    Last edited by delirium; 05-02-2013 at 16:29. Reason: spelling sighs


 

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