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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    Middle income?

    I don't consider it middle class welfare as lower income earners are entitled to it. Personally, I see middle class welfare as being things like first home owners grant.

    I wouldn't be opposed to the threshold being lowered if this means that lower income earners can still claim it. I never really understood why benefits like this are just cut off for all, rather than being scaled down from the top down (if it is necessary).
    But there are other benefits for those on lower incomes. For me this is simply a vote grabbing benefit and should be scrapped.
    Last edited by Euphrosyne; 05-02-2013 at 12:25. Reason: Wrong 'there'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberleygal1 View Post
    But those that do work should have an incentive to be able to have time at home with their children by being paid the ppl. I have been with my employer for 12 years so i think i deserve to be paid a bit of money being the ppl from the government to enable me to have time off, I have paid 12yrs of taxes so why shouldn't I get something back!

    And while we all know what kids cost the point you raise to plan ahead, well that applies to everyone, low, middle or high income earners but it just seems to me that a majority of the handouts paid to lower income earners and the more they get the less incentive there is for them to better their situation by getting a job or a higher paying one etc, why would one remove themselves from the welfare system when receiving school bonuses, ccr, ccb, tax a and b payments, rent assistance, health care card and the list goes on.
    I fully support PPL for a whole range of reasons.

    IME in these threads, this often isn't really about saving the tax payer money or about them standing on their own feet. It's that *some* higher middle and high income earners are angry they are missing out on a few hundred a year. Thus your comment earlier, paraphrased to - if everyone can't get it, no one should. Someone on 150k+ shouldn't need help with uniforms. If we are saying pay for your own kids, and people are expecting a family on 20k to do it on their own why shouldn't a wealthy family be able to?

    Everything you list is pretty negligible. My DH works but we still are eligible for HCC - seriously it would save us $50 a year, if that. Very few drs bulk bill anymore. I don't get cheap transport or rego. We have very few scripts and the ones we do have are only $2 dearer anyway. Rent assistance is a maximum of $130 p/f. Low income earners are paying almost the same in rent as the wealthy are paying for their mortgage lol ftb b is an ok amount but ftb a is $40. CCR is only for working families.

    Ask a single mum on here if she could give up the HCC, rent assistance and ftb to earn 200k a year and you'd only get half way thru the sentence before she jumped at the chance lol lets not make out welfare is the high life.
    Last edited by delirium; 05-02-2013 at 12:39.

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  4. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberleygal1 View Post

    it just seems to me that a majority of the handouts paid to lower income earners and the more they get the less incentive there is for them to better their situation by getting a job or a higher paying one etc, why would one remove themselves from the welfare system when receiving school bonuses, ccr, ccb, tax a and b payments, rent assistance, health care card and the list goes on.
    You are kidding right? You can't think of any reasons why people would want to remove themselves from the welfare system?

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  6. #304
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    Default Abbott to axe school bonus if he gets in

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberleygal1 View Post
    But those that do work should have an incentive to be able to have time at home with their children by being paid the ppl. I have been with my employer for 12 years so i think i deserve to be paid a bit of money being the ppl from the government to enable me to have time off, I have paid 12yrs of taxes so why shouldn't I get something back!

    And while we all know what kids cost the point you raise to plan ahead, well that applies to everyone, low, middle or high income earners but it just seems to me that a majority of the handouts paid to lower income earners and the more they get the less incentive there is for them to better their situation by getting a job or a higher paying one etc, why would one remove themselves from the welfare system when receiving school bonuses, ccr, ccb, tax a and b payments, rent assistance, health care card and the list goes on.
    I can understand this sentiment, as someone who has never gotten austudy or any direct government payment (besides I think that bonus they gave everyone in the stimulus package) it is nice after over a decade of paying tax to be eligible for something like Paid Parental Leave. Particularly if you combine it with your work mat leave (if you have it) so you can take the first year off.

    A lot of people receiving welfare really need it and would probably rather be on a higher paying job. Yes I def know there are those who wrought the system for their own means, I sadly know quite a few which does spoil it. On the whole though, those payments are helping a lot of families survive and if we cut them, it prob won't lead to any better outcome. Children are at the heart of families and in the end, they are who will suffer.

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  8. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
    But there are other benefits for those on lower incomes. For me this is simply a vote grabbing benefit and should be scrapped.
    They cover the barest essentials sometimes not even that. With a single parent with one child who is 8 and at school and she is looking for work - she is getting $750 p/f. That wouldn't even cover a week's mortgage for some.

  9. #306
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    Just to quickly reply to the replies to my post, I still find it funny that people feel the need to comment on others appearance, or to make caricatures of them and say its ok, it comes with the territory. I still maintain that if someone stuck up a caricature of Ms Gillard and said, its okay, it comes with the territory, that person would be told its not okay regardless. Ftr, I'm not just talking about the Shrek caricature, there were a lot of insults bandied about earlier in the thread all directed at liberal politicians. I'd just like one thread on politics debate the policies, not the politicians themselves.

    With regards to the thread, I am interested in learning more about other countries welfare and tax systems. Sweden and Denmark have been mentioned. So, are the systems there, higher taxes =free public services? If these systems are so great, why aren't others adopting them? What are their failures?

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  11. #307
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    Default Abbott to axe school bonus if he gets in

    Quote Originally Posted by delirium;
    Low income earners are paying almost the same in rent as the wealthy are paying for their mortgage lol ftb b is an ok amount but ftb a is $40. CCR is only for working families.
    This is a good point too. Low income earners often pay a huge proportion of their income in rent. I know it's easy to say, move to another town but that's not always viable. Where I live it's virtually impossible to get a family home to rent (I'm talking a 2 or 3 beddie townhouse or very small house in the burbs) for less than $400 a week. That's a huge amount to a lot of families and makes it impossible to save.

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    Default Abbott to axe school bonus if he gets in

    Quote Originally Posted by mama and her little bear View Post
    Just wondering how much you earn per year? Do you honestly think living on 20-30 k a year isn't incentive enough?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Gram View Post
    You are kidding right? You can't think of any reasons why people would want to remove themselves from the welfare system?
    lol yes bc living off 20k is easier than 200k bc people have a big mortgage and on welfare you get a HCC. 20k is so attractive, why would anyone want to get off welfare? *tongue firmly in cheek*

    Seriously this attitude of 'I work so I should get all these kick backs even though I'm rich and give the poor nothing bc they don't deserve it like I do' really annoys me. At least many people discussing in here that don't support the bonus at least recognise how difficult it is to be low income....

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    Default Abbott to axe school bonus if he gets in

    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Just to quickly reply to the replies to my post, I still find it funny that people feel the need to comment on others appearance, or to make caricatures of them and say its ok, it comes with the territory. I still maintain that if someone stuck up a caricature of Ms Gillard and said, its okay, it comes with the territory, that person would be told its not okay regardless. Ftr, I'm not just talking about the Shrek caricature, there were a lot of insults bandied about earlier in the thread all directed at liberal politicians. I'd just like one thread on politics debate the policies, not the politicians themselves.

    I think you've made your point now people make life long careers of drawing caricatures of politicians. Their personalities sometimes do come into intelligent debate.

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