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  1. #91
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    Well said Atropos.

    Steve you listed a long, long, long list of health issues that you claim are caused by fluoride and provided not a single source of evidence for your bold statement that they are all somehow linked to fluoride. Yet you continue to hound the rest of us for quoting documents that were published by scientists and health professionals working for reputable scientific agencies.

    I don't think anyone called politicians god. We are all aware of many instances where our elected officials have made many poor decisions. We generally vote them out at the next election. However this is completely different to your assertion that governments worldwide have been deliberately harming their constituents for 70 years. Governments of all levels and political persuasions have all been colluding together? This would have to be a first. Even in this unlikely scenario you have provided zero evidence of why they would do this. Who benefits from this? Who do you suspect is making all the money out of this (and how).

    Drinking water is tested on a regular basis for a range of chemicals and pathogens. Where is your evidence that all these toxic byproducts are ending up in the water?

    It seems the more you try to 'shore up' your argument, the more you appear to be clutching at straws.

    And you still haven't answered Atropos' question - where is your evidence that the documents she has quoted are propaganda. Just because you claim to have different studies does not prove propaganda.

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    Atropos  (28-02-2013)

  3. #92
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    pegasus, if you look at the water quality report for Perth you will see that the reported concentration of fluoride is frequently 1.0 ppm. Most of the rest of Western Australia is not fluoridated. The statistics may show a lower level of caries in Western Australian children when compared to children of other states, but they also show the highest level of caries in Tasmanian children, and Tasmania has a high coverage of fluoridation and is the state which has been fluoridated the longest. According to information on the WHO website, the countries with the lowest level of caries in 12-year-old children are Denmark, Germany, and the United Kingdom. Denmark has never had fluoridation, West Germany discontinued fluoridation in the 1970s, East Germany discontinued fluoridation immediately upon reunification with West Germany, and the UK has fluoridated water for only about 10% of its population.

    http://www.mah.se/CAPP/Country-Oral-...CountryArea-D/
    http://www.mah.se/CAPP/Country-Oral-...CountryArea-G/
    http://www.mah.se/CAPP/Country-Oral-...CountryArea-U/

    You wrote "Flouride [sic] is not a medication." Sorry, the justification which is provided for dumping the toxic waste they call "fluoride" into water supplies is that it reduces the rate of dental caries. It's the use of a chemical to achieve a health outcome, so of course it is medication, and saying it isn't is an abuse of the English language. Yes, fluoride is an element, but the "fluoride" which is added to water is typically hexafluorosilicic acid or sodium hexafluorosilicate, mixed with arsenic, lead, mercury, cadmium, and various other toxins. Have a look at the abstract I posted earlier on the cancers caused by the addition of arsenic to water supplies via "fluoridation". The chemical formula for sodium fluoride is not NaFl, it's NaF. Your opinions on chlorine have nothing to do with fluoridation; they are two different issues.

    You wrote "Chemicals are all around us. We breathe Nitrogen and Oxygen everyday and exhale Carbon Dioxide. All chemicals are harmful in large doses, but we do not need to be afraid of chemicals. We need chemicals to survive." Thanks for that, it's the funniest thing I've read for a while. That little talk might satisfy your children, but any educated person reading it is going to question your sanity. Obviously the idea that all chemicals are bad is extremely simplistic, but the point is there are vast differences between one chemical and the next. Fluoride accumulates continuously in the body, and is a neurotoxin and enzyme toxin, which is not something which can be said about many chemicals. Dental fluorosis is the result of fluoride toxicity, and is very common in fluoridated areas. Fluoridationists can't pretend it doesn't exist, so they claim it's just cosmetic. At the same time, they pretend that the other adverse health effects are not happening, and governments refuse to fund research.

    http://www.fluoridealert.org/archive/study/
    http://www.meetup.com/Fluoride-Free-.../forum/2540112

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    Abuse of the English language?? Question her sanity?? Gosh Steve, you are a charmer!! I can't believe I haven't yet fallen prey to your astounding charisma and become anti fluoride!!
    Using a substance to achieve a health outcome does not automatically make it a medication- vitamin supplements to treat a deficiency are one example, or the use of olive oil to soften earwax. Neither of these are medications per se, but both are used to achieve a health outcome. Much like how fluoride is added to water to achieve greater oral health.
    What are you trying to achieve here? Anyone that disagrees with you gets a dose of condescension, outlandish statements and insults, so it's become clear you aren't here to share your message- seems you are just wanting to pick arguments.

    You are still yet to answer my question about the nhmrc- where is the evidence of the propaganda you claim they distribute?? Really, where is it? You made the statement, now back it up.

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    Pegasus  (01-03-2013)

  7. #94
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    Pegasus is offline and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    I'm not going to do a proper reply at the moment, I've got to get the kids to school and then me to work. I just wanted to let you know I have read your response Steve.

    There is so much to comment on here re: chemicals and their interaction with us in everyday life. I'll leave it now with a suggestion of checking out the breakdown of common foods we eat. We ingest iron, magnesium and more metals on a daily basis, its all about the concentration.

    I will however, look into the concentration of fluouride in wa's water, all I've read says concentrations are less than 1mg/L, I'd be very interested in how you're so knowledgeable on specific concentrations

    Lastly all of perths scheme water is fluorodised, and that accounts for the supply of most west Australia's population. The urban sprawl means "Perth" is bigger than people think

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    I am in two minds re fluoride in tap water. I think with the amount of soft drinks/juices available and the sheer amounts of sugar we eat a lot of people, including young children, would have awful problems with their teeth which does affect our health.

    On the other hand, mass medication is not something the government is supposed to do to a society. It doesn't take into account the individual's medical needs. DP has a hiatus hernia which has in turn caused erosion in his eusophegus (sp?) due to the reflux. It's under control now with medication (which gives him other unpleasant side effects) but there is research to suggest that he would benefit from fluoride-free water. So he either has to buy bottled or we have to pay upward of $600 for a filter which will lower the fluoride in our tap water.

  9. #96
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    Pegasus is offline and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    Just wanted to add, I'd written about oxygen, nitrogen etc when talking about chemicals to take this down to a more simplistic level, I certainly don't discuss this stuff with my 6 and 8 year old, and I can assure you I am very sane using a lot more chemicals in my work, seen as a lot more toxic.

    I work in the health industry and know a great deal about human anatomy, organ functions, the function and presence of elements, and compound chemicals in our body.

    Even radioactive elements can benefit some peoples bodies, look at treatment of cancers and rheumatoid arthritis.

    I stand by that all the danger of chemicals on our bodies is dependent upon the concentrations

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    I don't know enough about the subject to be passionate about it. But I am yet to see any peer reviewed articles that show all of the medical things that you are saying fluoride causes. Do you have anything like that to link Steve? If you do I will have a look. So far you have linked a few websites that have a clear agenda and a few books. As we all know, when making decisions about health we need to steer clear of emotive websites and books and look at the science. I am open to learning though. So point me in the right direction!

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    Benji, I don't know why you think that fluoride in water is good for teeth. Calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, boron, molybdenum, and vitamin D are required for healthy teeth. Fluoride is not required, and often damages teeth. I agree that people shouldn't have to go out of their way to avoid chemicals in water which don't need to be there. Fluoridation almost certainly affects everyone's health adversely, but most people don't make the connection, and for many the effects are subtle, especially early on.

    pegasus, I already know all about iron, magnesium, and other metals in foods. I also know basic Australian demographic information. You can stop trying to educate me with common knowledge, because it's a waste of my time and yours. There is information on the minimum and maximum fluoride concentrations measured at various locations in Perth in the 2010/2011 water quality report, but it seems to be missing from the latest report. It does say that the recommended fluoride range for Perth is 0.7 to 1.0 ppm, though.

    http://www.watercorporation.com.au/_...rt_2011_12.pdf
    http://www.watercorporation.com.au/_...2010_2011.pdfs

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    Of course it is good for teeth. This is why dentists recommend fluoride treatments for some. And why it is in toothpaste. It ain't there for fun.

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    Aw, still no answer to my question!


 

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