Many of your docs sounded really pushy, thankfully all the specialists I seen were very professional.
My problems didn't start until 5 years after my 2nd tear free birth, surgeons explained that problems from 3rd and 4th tears can start years later as the muscles get weaker from subsequent births, nerve damage and age. I also read this in medical research as I have trust issues with doctors. (I always double check) I think that's what they're talking about when the docs say even if u don't tear the pressure weakens or injures internally, i
When they did ultrasounds in my sphincter defect
they said they were suprised I wasn't inconinent, but I have really strong squeezing muscles which compensate for half a sphincter, so its really extra important for us to keep up the KEGELS!
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04-10-2012 10:00 #11Member
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
04-10-2012 14:44 #12Senior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
- East Melbourne
I'm so very sorry to read of your experience, Superpip. It sounds like you were the ideal fit healthy first time mama, the kind of woman who is just naturally blessed to birth easily and normally. I can't believe they used a stool, when we have research like this that tells us that the kneeling position is associated with highest rates of intact perineum and more studies that show it is important to wait till a mother feels the instinctive urge to push and the natural foetal ejection reflex has kicked in. Yes you are quite right, it is totally normal for there to be a resting phase between dilation and the start of the pushing phase and there is plenty of literature to support mothers going with their body and instinct, and the hazards of "directed pushing".
Pushing for first time mothers
This article is a good one to give to care providers:
When and How to Push - providing accurate information to women
Have you considered lodging a complaint? They unnecessarily caused you great damage by practicing things that are clearly not evidence-based and they have robbed you of being able to confidently have vaginal births in the future. This is a lot of harm that has been done to you and their practice needs review so that other women are not harmed in the same way.
Another idea is have a consult with an independent midwife. They have a different philosophy of care - different from the model you experienced the first time and it might provide some perspective.
to all those healing from such serious tearing.
Last edited by fai firinne; 04-10-2012 at 14:50.
15-10-2012 14:39 #13Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
Hi Superpip and all,
Reading this thread brings it all back...I am considering #2 and thinking about how to go about birth this next time around.
After a great, relatively fast labour I ended up pushing for about 5 hours to no avail and ended up having a forceps delivery, complete with an epi and 3rd deg tearing. My daughter unded up being posterior, a bit of a suprised gasp went throught the room when she was unceremoniously pulled out!About a week after my stitches came apart (and to cut a long story short) ended up having surgery to put me back together. Only to have the stitches come apart again (but only at the skin layer) and I had to just let the hole in my skin heal with scar tissue (yuk, sorry, TMI!). It ended up taking me about 4 months to fully recover (physically!!).
The Ob/Gyn who supervised my daughters' delivery said, almost straight after she was born, that I would definately need to have a cs next time (thanks mate, just what I was thinking about...!). The Ob/Gyn who did my follow-up surgery said there was no reason why I couldn't have a natural delivery, because we know that the combination of epi and bad needlework contributed to what happened following birth. He recommended using an epi-no (which he said he wouldn't recommend to just anyone, but that there may be some advantage in using it becuase of all the scar tissue). I have also heard of women having their midwife/doc physically support the birth canal during birth, taking pressure away from the scar tissue.
Clearly I need to do more research before I decide, but I'd like to have it sorted before I get preggas again. I'm considering a cs, even though I don't really want one, simply because it so long to recover after birth and it was just all a tad traumatic! I am planning on seeing the same Ob/Gyn who did my surgery, at least he was open to the option!
Superpip, choose whatever you feel is right - a happy baby and well mum is the main thing Thank you all for giving me some food for thought!
15-10-2012 15:07 #14
I had a 3rd (3a) degree tear with #1 and I was worried about a c-section 2nd time around, but my Ob said the risk was small of another tear (bad tear) and that as a c-section wasn't without risk he recommended a vaginal delivery. He recommended the epi-no too, but as it was expensive and my private health wouldn't cover it I didn't bother. The research on it looked good though.
I managed a vaginal delivery of my 4.4kg dd (my ds - bub #1 was only 4kg!). She broke her collar bone during the birth (forceps delivery) so she was clearly a very big girl, but apart from a small episiotomy I didn't actually tear at all! So, I saw that as a success.
BUT, from my reading a 4th degree tear is a whole different issue to 3rd degree tears and if it was me I would have a c-section as I see the risk of more serious problems as higher ... by no means guarenteed as IndigoJ has shown, but higher risk.
05-11-2012 16:04 #15
Natural birth after 4th degree tear?
I had a 4th degree tear and will absolutely positively be having a caesarean next time. I was also told that if i were to tear badly the second time round you are much more likely to end up with incontinence or a colostomy bag, and just because you may not have any immediate problems from a vaginal birth second time round, does not mean that as you get older and your muscles weaken you won't have any problems then. Caesareans are very routine and relatively safe procedures these days, I would much rather have a Caesar than risk being faecally incontinent for the rest of my life, I'm only 24, no thank you very much. But to be honest I hated labour before the complications started, so I really couldn't care less about never having a vaginal birth again. Everyone's different though so I hope you make the right decision based on how you feel about childbirth, if you really desire a vaginal birth I have heard of women doing it after 4th degree tears with no complications, so it certainly can be done. Good luck
18-11-2012 20:17 #16Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
Soo sorry you had to experience all that
I had an awful birth with my first which resulted in alot of damage and full episiotomy which wasn't done well - further surgery and long painful recovery. Still not completely recovered and it's been 2 years!
however, i had my second bub just 15 months after the birth of ds and i too stressed and worried about what to do as i did desperately want a natural birth (i was scared off c-sec because during my first birth they also ruptured my spinal column while giving me epidural - so was scared of having spinal for c-sec)
anyway, after a lot of thought, research and discussions with as many different professionals and people with similar experiences i decided for the c-section. although there are risks involved with it - i felt it was still a more controlled risk to take than to give birth naturally as my body was still in recovery from that first birth. maybe if i'd waited and had more time for my body to heal before 2nd birth i would've tried natural. but i figured i hadn't healed so the risks of more damage being done wasn't worth it for me.
i was super super scared of c-section though but it did go so well and recovery was much quicker than my natural birth which in reality i'm still recovering from. i made sure i had a good birth plan for my 2nd and informed everyone involved to appreciate i was nervous due to my first experience with birth and had certain things in place to ensure they treated it like a birth and not an operation.
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