Not offended at all I think all of this sheds light on the OP's concern about selective reading of the Bible --is there any other sort?
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09-12-2012 11:57 #11
Last edited by JohnC; 09-12-2012 at 13:45.
09-12-2012 12:25 #12
I believe the bible is a book written by men.
I also believe in god, but there is not any particular religion I identify with.
09-12-2012 12:34 #13
The scripture in Psalms 93:1 says "The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved"
Think about what this is saying - The world also is established - Is firm; is on a solid foundation. It cannot be shaken or destroyed by natural convulsions, or by the power of man.
That it cannot be moved - Moved out of its place; overthrown; destroyed. This harmonises with the scripture in Psalms and others that speak of the earth remaining forever.
Psalms 104:5 – “ Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed forever”
Ecclesiasties 1: 4 – “ One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh, but the earth abideth forever
Also there are several scriptures referring to the earth as a sphere or circle. The hebrew word for circle 'chugh' can also mean sphere.
It should be noted however that the Hebrews had no separate word for a three-dimensional circle ie a "sphere" thus the word covered a circle both in its two AND three dimensional sense. Translators therefore have not taken any liberties translating Isaiah 40:22 as "sphere" or "globe".
Just another take on it
Last edited by SoThisIsLove; 09-12-2012 at 12:40.
09-12-2012 12:37 #14
Oh also was mentioned was the scripture in Job 26:7 which always stated that the earth hangs upon nothing
09-12-2012 12:54 #15
I believe the bible is nothing, but a collection of good stories, with a splash of historical truth thrown in there... without the guidance of the holy ghost to confirm and clarify what you're reading.
It should never be taken word for word as perfect truth, it's been altered and added to, translated over and over, it's very 'tainted' by man.
I read my scriptures daily, as does my husband, we often read the same chapters together, it's amazing what we both get out of each passage, often very different, but very relevant to our day and our lives.
09-12-2012 13:30 #16
The Hebrew word "chug" does mean circle; the Hebrew word for sphere or ball is "dur", as in Isaiah 22:18 "He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball (dur) into a large country ..."
Dur is never used to describe the Earth. On the other hand, Job 28:24, Job 37:3, Job 38:13, Jeremiah 16:19 and Daniel 4:11 all claim that the earth has ends or edges depending on what version you read. But regardless of translation, a sphere has neither edges nor ends. But a two-dimensional flat form does. Job and other books also repeatedly refer to the foundations of the Earth, usually in the context of these having been laid by God. The poetry of these books often images God as a builder using a compass to circumscribe the disk of the Earth.
There is nothing surprising about this. The view of the Earth as a flat disk was a commonplace of Near Eastern cosmology in the first millenium BCE.
The Greeks on the other hand realised the Earth was a sphere, and hence that is the conception embodied in the New Testament writings such as Luke, which was composed in Greek in the second half of the first century CE.
Both Testaments, however, agree that the Earth was fixed at the centre of creation, an idea not seriously challenged until the Copernican revolution 1,500 years later.
Last edited by JohnC; 09-12-2012 at 13:39.
09-12-2012 14:26 #17
Re: Question for Christians?
Ok, I looked into it a bit more not for a debate but looking at varying viewpoints on the matter as i dont think im all that convinced after taking into account all of the scriptures on the subject
Eg...Isaiah 29:3 uses the word 'dur' and its translated as 'round' or 'round about'. Dur isnt exclusively a word for sphere either. so we cant be certain that Isaiahs choice not to use dur but rather chugh didnt refer to a sphere. As i said previously there is not an exclusive word for sphere as dur can also be translated simply as 'circle'.
In regards to the earth having edges or ends well even today we use the saying " to the ends of the earth" not meaning the earth literally has an end....or 'travelling to the four corners of the earth' meaning traverssing the globe. also the bible speaks of the four corners of the earth which again couldnt be taken as literal if the earth was viewed as a flat circle disk as u say could it?
The meaning of these words in modern hebrew language could have altered slightly over time and some words we know have, not just in hebrew but many languages this occurs including english as influences of other cultures and languages over time it changes so i dont think you can say for sure they meant a flat disc or in fact a globe
Also in regards to the foundations of the earth well as the creator he would have laid the foundations or what the beginning of the formation of the earth is how i would understand that. Not as in a flat surface to be built upon if that makes any sense whatsoever haha?
Im just thinking aloud!
Interesting discussion tho
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Last edited by SoThisIsLove; 09-12-2012 at 14:30.
09-12-2012 15:29 #18
I think if we take a broader perspective, we can see that Old Testament authors were not much concerned about cosmology, or indeed scientific questions in general. (They thought bats were birds and they were happy to approximate the value of pi to 3)
They seem to have taken their picture of the cosmos largely from the Egyptians, who saw the Earth as a flat expanse identified with Geb, with the heavens overarching (the firmament for the Hebrews) and the sun and moon moving in a circular motion between them. The notion that the Earth was a globe moving in a double motion around the sun would have been entirely incomprehensible to both the Hebrews and the Egyptians, and indeed was still problematic at the time of Galileo (despite his conviction that "yet it does move").
The most famous example of this cosmology is of course in Joshua 10, where Joshua commands the "Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies."
The only reason I can think that anyone would want to distort the quite clear views of the ancient Israelites into something that comports with modern science is a misguided notion about these texts being "inerrant", rather than the products of a particular society and people trying to understand their place in the world.
09-12-2012 15:59 #19
Question for Christians?
I think the stories are nice to teach you morals and ideals but don't believe it is 100% historically correct.
It was written by men, transcribed by men, translated by men. Each one capable of giving a different perspective or making a mistake. Chinese whispers sort of thing.
But the morals and teachings are important to me.
09-12-2012 16:19 #20
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
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