I'm looking forward to gaining some more time in the day after reducing all of the meds
And ... Hopefully loosing some puffiness in my face too ! But in the scheme of things doesn't matter!
Me 32 / DH 36
#12 March FET PGD, Bondi Protocol + Intralipid BFP
Results 861 to 870 of 938
07-05-2013 07:34 #861
07-05-2013 12:15 #862Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
07-05-2013 14:47 #863
ok, so i'm slowly getting over the dissapointing phonecall
this week is so hard, the daily updates just kill me. but's it not over by any means, it just hurts.
so we have 6 left. from 19 it's a kick in the guts, but there is a lot to put it in perspective.
like i said yesterday, we split them 10/9 - natural ivf/icsi. god i wish i had of stuck to my guns and put them all to natural ivf, my gut told me to. but at least now we now for sure to never use icsi again, not a nice way to learn, but at least we know for sure.
so to start with, yesterday as i lay in recovery a scientist came to see me (first time ever this has happened). she said we got 19, split 10/9. so the 10 to natural ivf we would find out fert rates tomorrow (today) and that of the 9 split to icsi, 5 didn't make it through the stripping process. not sure what that is, it sounded like the preparation to be injected. of the 5 that didn't make it 3 were immature, so either way were gone, but 2 could have continued to mature over the next few hours and might have made it through the ivf natural procedure.
she asked me why we were using icsi as my husbands sperm looked great. well this was exactly my thoughts when we arrived to warren. the last 3 times our previous fs used ha-icsi. at the time he said to eliminate my husband from being the issue, but to be honest i'm p*ssed it didn't occur to him by round 3 that my eggs were not up to it. it took my own reseacrh, gut feel etc (as per bloody usual) to finally conclude that icsi was not right for us.
once at my last fs a scientist happened to mention on the phone that my eggs looked like the shell was too soft to survive the injection and kind of burst. this started me thinking. anyway i told all this to the lady scientist who was absolutely lovely. she said to me that herself and every other person in her lab agreed that they would never use icsi unless there were major issues with their husbands sperm (which it can be great for). if you were getting good fert rates with natural ivf why on earth would you want to interfere with the process any more. she said that some eggs were just not robust enough, it's not to say they are not healthy, it just doesn't suit them. also that it frustrates them how many people come to their clinic using icsi in the past when they didn't need to. she asked as we only had 4 left for icsi did i want to bring anymore over from the 10 we had aside for ivf? no way!!!! thank god we didn't do all of them icsi. warren said as long as egg numbers are high enough he usually does 50/50 split. but i would say after this he will agree with me not to do any icsi at all. it was nice to have a scientist be honest with me.
so this morning i called my nurse and the results were this. of the 4 left for icsi only 1 fertilised! urggh!! of the 10 for natural we have 5...BUT good fert rates as of the 10 there were 3 immature (not too bad considering big egg haul), so our fert rate for natural ivf was 5/7. pretty happy with that. it's hard to go from 19 to 14 to 6 overnight, but we've got to keep hoping that somewhere in that 6 there might be a little battler that hangs on. we will be ecstatic is we get 1 to blast, anymore than 1 will be like a dream as we have had none to blast in the last 3 rounds. will be interesting too which batch its from if we get there.
when i discussed my thoughts on icsi with warren's nurse this morn after getting my fert results she agreed that some eggs are just not cut out for icsi. wish we had of known earlier, but glad to know now. in hindsight we could have had 9 or 10 embryos this morning, but what will be will be and we know for next time, if there has to be a next time.
we intend to go at least one more round with wazza with my eggs if this one doesn't get us over the line. and depending on embryo quality at end of week or if we don't get to blast, i might take dhea again & chinese herbs for 2 months before having one final crack at it. i only recently remembered that the only time i ever got 2 blasts to the freezer (and 1 back in) was when i was doing acupuncture and herbs. i tossed it after that year as i found all the appointments to be a drain, financially, time wise, just seemed to complicate things. but will throw everything at it one more time as i can't leave any stone unturned. if we still don't get there, it might be time to start looking for a donor as even surrogacy is not an option if we can't get any embryos to blast for transfer, especially if using overseas surrogate as they will need to be frozen to transport if we want to do ivf treatment in australia. warren has told us to cut it off at the pass, if they don't survive to blast to move onto the next cycle. it's a tough call but after rushing to transfer day 2/3/4 embryos as they looked like they would die before day 5 i can honestly say i think i'd rather know. although it's a romantic notion, and i have read countless stories on the internet of where embryos are better off in the mother, he said if they don't survive in the dish to day 5 it is highly unlikely they would survive in me. so if that happens it's best to come off the drugs, rather than torture oursleves for the TWW, focus on the next cycle and have a little break inbetween. it's a heartbreaker, and i struggled to ignore the call of my little babies when we got the devastatng news last time that they were all dying. i sped down the highway from brisbane to the gold coast, tears ********* down my face, and begged my fs to put them in, i dreamt that our connection was so strong that my incubator was what they needed. it wasn't to be and it hurt like hell when we got the negative 2 weeks later (this happened 3 times in a row). please don't think i'm heartless by leaving my embies there if there are only 1 or 2 left at some point, whereby i could put them in if i wanted to. i am going to try to be strong, the whole rip the band aid off thing. who knows if i will be able to follow through if it happens again though. anyway, no more sads, will get back to living this week. a highlight has been i am writing a story about our little cat rocky and how he has taught me to live and love again. over 5000 words written so far! i feel inspired and it has a bit about ivf too as it's just our journey really.
whoa, novel post again sorry, see why i need to write a book?! lol
they couldn't tell me cell size etc today, so will call again tomorrow morning for another update and will keep you posted. hopefully this great culture media at qfg will help our little guys thrive!!
07-05-2013 15:06 #864
crofty, sorry in my mammoth post i forgot to answer the one question you asked me
my protocol is HUGE!!! i've never been on some of this stuff, certainly not all at the same time. here goes:
400mg pessaries x 2, up to x 3 after ET (1200mg total). more than what wazza reccomends but Dr M said due to high NK cells i need more. wazza ok with this. i've only ever taken 2 x crinone which i've been told is equal to 400mg total which is p*ss weak. wazza has prescribed 200mg x 4 per day, then after ET 1 x 200mg pessary and crinone 2 per day, but the nurse said as i'm going up to 1200mg (and apparently they have heaps of ladies who are reccommended to do this for other reasons) by the time i get to 1200 per day i will probably want to buy 400mg pessaries so i'm not having to shove things up there every 5 minutes! lol..yuck!
feldene x 1 - 10mg i think - anti-inflammitory - dr M said i didn't need it, wazza said anyone who fails more than 2 -3 times he puts them on it. my call, but as Dr M said no harm, i'm taking it.
amoxyillin - antibiotic x 3 per day - i suggested to wazza and dr M after reading about colorado protocol, both agreed
clexane 60mg and aspirin
melatonin 5mg (part of wazza bible along with other supps)
Provera 10mg - 4 x 2 tabs per day - oral progesterone - from wazza
Progynova 2mg - 4 x 2 tabs per day - lining helper - from wazza
pregnyl boosters after ET - 1500 units x 3 spaced out over week
prednislone 25mg - up to 30mg if we get a positive
I'm a walking pharmacy, but you girls know what that's like!!
Last edited by lissyloulou; 07-05-2013 at 15:35.
08-05-2013 05:04 #865
Oh Lissyloulou, big hugs. Try to stay positive. I know it's easier said than done. Sending you lots of baby dust for your little embryos
The Following User Says Thank You to Hope06 For This Useful Post:
08-05-2013 05:08 #866
Is there anybody on this thread who lives in Brisbane and has sent their bloods to Chicargo? I am having lots of trouble trying to find a courier company that can get it there within the required 36 hours. I am thinking I may have to fly to Sydney to have the bloods drawn there. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
08-05-2013 08:58 #867
this mornings update, thank god a bit more positive :
2 x 3 cell
3 x 4 cell
1 x 1 cell (this one probably won't keep going)
nurse said they like them to be between 2 to 4 cell on Day 2 so we have 5 tracking well. however she did say they are all grade 2 which is a bit below average. and the 1 cell is grade 1, so not sure what that means. i have never been given grading before, and i have read that grading is not everything as long as the cells are growing well. so kinda wish she hadn't mentioned the grading as i'm sure i will obsess on it now! but either way we are just happy to still be in the game. come on little ones!!
08-05-2013 15:57 #868Member
- Join Date
- May 2012
Thanks again for all the advice and support given re Dr M. I have my phone consult next week and will let you know how it goes.
LissyLou: 5 little embies going strong seems pretty good. I hate those daily phonecalls as well, my numbers always drop drastically, but this cycle seems very positive for you with all the changes youve made, Wazza, Dr M, Menopur protochol so hopefully this is your one. I always ask Monash to grade them and they always tell me they dont. Can I ask at some stage what Saizen (growth hormone) dose you took? Will have fingers crossed that you can some great blastocytes. I have also wondered if a change of lab would give a better result. I too had a better result at City Fertility but that was a year ago before I did my three stims with Monash.Did you do PGD with Wazza? Dr Ong isnt in to PGD as you would probably know. Thanks for all the info on Dr Sacks (doesnt sound very nice) as I was really considering this and now feel happier with my decision to persue the Dr M pathway. Sorry to hear about Rocky. We got a puppy on my third failed IVF and she means the world to me. Good luck x
Hope: 18 stims - woah you are one tough lady and 2 ectopics. Looks like I am going through my second ectopic now (they are not really sure what is going on) and it is an absolute nightmare. I have been having blood tests every second day just about for the past three weeks and I am so over it. Looks like I will be having some kind of surgery on Monday as per Dr Ong's phone call 5 minutes ago as my hcg is going up again (went up, down, up, down and up again). So over this whole process right now. I also read that Genea article - the 27% increase in IVF stats and looked into the nearest Genea but I think its Lismore with limited hours - I guess you are in the same boat being a brissy girl(I am Goldcost). I am also in the 6 month wait for Wazza, I booked in january and have an appointment 22nd of July. I think you will definately get in before Novemeber though as I have been rung twice with cancellations - I couldnt take as once I was in the middle of a stim cycle and the second time was just recently and I still have this chemical pregnancy/ectopic thing going on that Dr Ong needs to sort. At some stage can you post who you found to mail your blood in bris as I guess I will also be doing this - hopefully we dont have to fly to Sydney just for mailing bloods.
Romy: You must just about be at the twelve week mark!
Bella: So nearly there - to holding bub in your arm!. You girls give me so much hope and one really needs hope at these rubbish times.
Litefantastic: 24 vials! I will faint for sure. Pity the husband has to have more as well as mine doesnt do so great with blood tests either. I notice you are a Melbourne girl. Out of interest have you ever heard of Dr Lynn Burneister, She's Monash - A frind gave me a Womens Weekly article featuring her where she is made out to be one of the best IVF drs in Australia. Just a random very very very back of the head idea if all else fails with Dr Ong, Dr M and then Wazza, not that we will have any money left by then.
No other news, will let you know how this miscarriage/etopic turns out, better days ahead (not in the very near future though) Good luck to all girls cycling x
08-05-2013 16:47 #869
Sandy, I took 3mg of Saizen each day for 8 days while stimming. Yeah, the sacks thing was a bummer for us. We flew all the way to Sydney to see him and he almost seemed offended that we did, like why would he have more answers when we were already basically doing his protocol. But at the time we were still quite innocent and thought maybe he would give us some different info than I could find out on the net about him. I guess i just wanted him to at least care and listen. Bondi protocol is clexane + steroids, nothing more just maybe adjusting dose up depending on failed cycles. He didn't believe in intralipids at the time, said he maybe believed in acupuncture but only right before and after ET and that he was doing a research study on it. I had dr beers book with me and he basically looked at me like I was crazy and said this was the problem with people like me who hadn't studied like him trying to take things into their own hands and that beers was over the top too. Seriously after flying to see him I almost knocked his block off! But this was early 2012 so who knows if he has the same stance with the mounting evidence of immune issues being real and women like us needing further treatment. Also i'm sure he has helped plenty of woman who have had success and they must be grateful to him, as we would all be to the fs who gets us over the line. So I don't want to be too harsh and i hate being a whinger, but it's the truth for my experience with him. I had heard about him on 60 minutes a few years ago about nk cells and just figured he was the guru so wanted to go straight to the source. But he wasn't the magic bullet for us. He sent a letter to my fs telling me to take clexane/20mg steroids/& 5mg folic acid for mthfr. Maybe if we lived in Sydney we would have seen him again, my husband didn't mind his dry sense of humour, I think I was just too fragile to handle it! Sometimes home truths are hard to hear, which I also felt when wazza mentioned donor eggs, although I am much tougher now than I was back then so maybe he wouldn't ruffle my feathers so much today. But I do really think there can be a nice way to say things sometimes when the people in front of you are clearly hurting.
I have heard of Lynn burmeister too, she is also on my last case scenario list, along with genea in Sydney. But right now I'm thinking we will stick with dr w & dr m. Have you got that woman's weekly article? I'd love to read it but it's too late to buy. Would it be possible to email me a copy if you have a scanner? I guess I could email WW for it too
Sorry just sent accidentally before I could also say I'm so sorry to hear of what you are going through...I can't imagine how awful you must feel. I hope things resolve quickly so you can move forward soon. Thanks for your kind words about Rocky. Animals that come into families who are desperate for children are all that more special as they are like children to us I think. We know life will keep going, but my heart still aches when I think of my dear little boy not there when I get home from work.
Last edited by lissyloulou; 08-05-2013 at 17:00.
08-05-2013 18:04 #870
I'm sorry for all my rambling posts ladies, the drugs are getting to me and my head is spinning with worry at the moment
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