After another chemical pregnancy and the Bondi Protocol with Dr. Sacks not working I've decided to turn to a more agressive form of immune treatment with Dr. Matthias. I have a phone consultation apointment with him in 2 weeks so I'm just gathering together all my medical history and then we'll take it from there.
What can I expect? Will he ask me to re do all my testing to current? Does he treat high NK cells prior to a cycle or is it only in conjunction with IVF?
I would love to hear your stories with Dr. Matthias so I can have some idea of how he works.
By the way I have elevated CD56 (blood) and CD57 (uterine) high nk cells.
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28-06-2012 12:43 #1
Have you been treated for high nk cells by Dr Gamal Matthias?
28-06-2012 15:34 #2
Highly recommend Dr Matthias
I was only thinking the other day of starting a thread to spread the good word about Dr Matthias…I highly recommend him as I truly believe if it wasn’t for him and his treatment for NK cells then my beautiful little girl would not be with me today.
I went to Dr Matthias as my ‘last resort’. I endured 7 years of IVF and infertility investigations, 17 cycles with 5 miscarriages and tried just about all the other drugs and protocols there is. I had previously had a biopsy with Dr Sacks and had very high NK cells (CD57) so was put on prednisolone for my next 2 cycles. I continued with clexane aswell (had been using this for years before as also tested positive for antinuclear antibodies) but unfortunately had another 2 miscarriages under this protocol. Dr Sacks had told me it was probably just my ‘old eggs’ and likely to be chromosome issues/egg quality etc but the biopsies from the D&C’s showed both had normal chromosomes. My gut feeling was that these immune issues were attacking my precious babies and I had read that Intralipid treatment has been successful in the USA & UK for women with recurrent miscarriages…so off I went to Dr Matthias.
He did his own biopsy and confirmed high NK cells, this time it was the CD56 ones that were abnormally high. In conjunction with another IVF cycle, he put me on dexamethasone from the start of the cycle, clexane, high dose progesterone pessaries and had Intralipid a few days before transfer. I also added growth hormone and luveris to the mix with the IVF as I had not used these before. I got 5 eggs but only 1 fertilised and was transferred on Day 2 as a sad looking 3-cell embryo. Luckily I fell pregnant with that sad looking embryo and had a further 3 Intralipid infusions at weeks 7, 14 and 24. I changed to prednisolone around week 13 and continued on that until around 24 weeks, and was on clexane the whole pregnancy.
We’ll never know for sure if it was the immune treatment or the added drugs with the IVF but I tend to think it was Dr Matthias’ treatment as the GH and luveris didn’t seems to improve things from the ivf side. For me I had no problem falling pregnant, the last 4 cycles I fell pg every time, it was just a problem hanging on to them at around the 7-8 week stage.
So now as I post this my healthy little girl is sleeping soundly cuddled against me in her hugabub carrier and I still pinch myself every day that this is all real after all the years of heartache and pain. Dr Matthias has been the only doctor who I felt I could fully trust, he is a lovely man and very positive and he believed that his treatment would work for me. I think he sees a lot of women like me who have tried everything after many miscarriages or failed ivf cycles and I believe he has a very good success rate.
I definitely recommend Dr Matthias to you and anyone else who feels they have tried everything and nearing the end of their journey. Its so hard to keep picking yourself up after losing so many precious babies and finding the strength to keep trying…I had to dig very deep before going again with his treatment but I’m so so glad I did!!
Sorry for the long post but I hope it helps. Feel free to PM me too.
All the best
28-06-2012 15:48 #3
Helenmac - I don't even know where to start... Dr Matthias is fantastic! I went to him after another BH user recommended him to me. I've had 4 M/C, a few chem pregs and lots of failed transfers. I have an 8 yr old DD who was conceived on Clomid 100mg.
Anyway, went to see him in Sept last year. He did a few BTs which none of my previous FS did (or thought relevant). I was with WFC and did a cycle with Genea also. He picked up an immune issue straight away. I haven't had the NK cell biopsy with him, but that would've been my next thing.
Anyway... He basically said that he believed I could fall pregnant (somewhat) naturally. Prescribed Clomid, Dexmethasone, and I continued with my megafol and aspirin. After a few cycle of clomid not working, he bumped my dose up to 3 clomid tablets (150mg!) and lo and behold... I actually started ovulating (for the first time in a VERY long time). I started LH testing and temping every day. And BANG... 4th working cycle, I'm actually pregnant. Without ivf. Something the regular FS said was impossible. I'm 5+1 today and just had my second BT.
Most FS don't agree with DrM treatment at all, and will discourage you from it. I believe he was trained under Dr Alan Beer in the states (and follows his methods).
But I can honestly say, if it wasn't for DR Matthias, I would still be on that painful ivf roller coaster.
Feel free to pm me for any extra info!
29-06-2012 16:32 #4
Thank you ever so much Ying Yang and Nat,
I really appreciate you taking the time to post me your stories. I'm especially interested in how Dr. Matthias treats his patients with high NK cells in particular high levels in the blood and uterus.
He sounds like an amazing Dr and I have googled him and seached through many diferrent websites and heard alot of praise from other women. There seems to be so many previous patients of Dr. Sacks after trying his protocol without success and requiring a more aggressive treatment with Dr. Matthias.
Well this next FET (2x donor embies) will be our final shot and then I'll be saying goodbye to IVF and getting on with my life. After 7 long years it's really taken it's toll on me emotionally and financially. Thank goodness we are blessed to have our DS but a sibling for him would be be a dream come true.
Anyone else out there have seen Dr. Matthias? Would love to hear more stories.
01-07-2012 17:31 #5Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
Helenmac thank you for starting this thread, and yinyang and nat for sharing you very positive experiences with dr.mathias.
May I ask how long it took you ladies to get an appointment with the him?
I have just done my 13th stim cycle, 34th transfer with yet another BFN and would really like to see him for some advice.
Helenmac when is your phone appointment? let us know how you go.
01-07-2012 19:59 #6
Give his receptionist a call, she's a lovely lady... Umm it was around 4 weeks I think if I remember correctly.
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02-07-2012 17:10 #7
Gretchen - I called his assistant last week (Gweneth) and she sent all the paperwork straight away. You have to fill out the medical questionaire and collect together all your medical history. It's $250 for the phone consultation. I could get in 12th July so only a two week wait!
To see him personally there is a longer wait. I think she said the next available apointment was the end of July so no too bad. It's $250 for a consultation in Bankstown but you can claim back on Medicare. You can't claim back on the phone consultation. I was desperate to talk to him soon so I opted for the phone consultation.
I'll keep you all posted on how it goes.
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02-07-2012 17:29 #8Member
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- Jun 2012
thanks girls, I phoned this morning and the receptionist explained the process and is posting me the paper work today. She pencilled me an appointment in for 26th july. I sure do hope he can help me with some answers.
04-07-2012 16:35 #9
Just thought I'd post this link to an article about Intralipid use in the UK:
To give you an idea of this treatment:
The milky-looking Intralipid is given via IV drip and takes about 8 hrs. You go into Hurstville private around 2pm, have a dose of Hartmans solution to get fluids up, Dr Matthias starts the intralipid around 4-5pm and it finishes around 11 then another dose of fluids. You're in overnight and can leave in the morning. All pretty painless (except the needle in the hand) and a hassle having to stay in hospital overnight but well worth the try. It was $650 for each Intralipid treatment plus the hospital costs (if not covered by private insurance).
I would recommend him do his own biospy if he suggests this as I think he does different type of testing than what Dr Sacks does. It was interesting that with Dr Sacks i had high CD57 cells but with Dr M it was the CD56 that were abnormally high...maybe my levels just happened to change like that or tests were different/more accurate WHO KNOWS??? He also does a hysteroscopy as well, so is under general anaesthetic but is only day surgery.
Dr M is very thorough and he kept a close eye on my levels with blood tests throughout my pregnancy and adjusted the drugs to suit...he doesn't seem to just use a 'stock standard' protocol like many FS use. As nat said many FS dont agree with his methods and, while Dr Sacks was happy for me to try the Intralipid he still wanted me to follow his 'bondi protocol' for the prednisolone (more like INSISTED). I just said "yeah ok no worries" but then went with everything that Dr M prescribed....like i said I had tried Dr S protocol before and it didn't work.
Go with your gut feeling, as i said before I put full trust in Dr M and I honestly believe it was his treatment that worked for me...I hope it works for you both too!
Good luck, let us know how the appointments go.
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MGC Bertie (16-03-2013)
04-07-2012 21:16 #10Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
Thanks for that information Yinyang. I haven't had much testing done, no biopsy either. I take prednisolone and clexane when I cycle but haven't had any luck so far. I'm just about ready to give up using my own eggs but want to give it 1 or 2 more tries with Dr.m's protocol first. I have always thought my immune system attacks our embryos and that it doesn't like DH! (my 2 children from previous partner) and of cause FS says it's my eggs, this may be the case now but I don't believe it would have been 6 years ago when I started ivf..
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