This thread is to support all who need it, I'm not going to welcome you as it suxs you have to be here at all xx
It's tough, I'm guessing that you don't get many eggs through pick up? I'm just assuming as you said both transfers have been fresh. Is there a reason why?
Laparoscopy will be good to do some exploratory investigations are they doing a hystercopy too?
Nk cells are called natural kill cells, some specialists still don't believe that there is any evidence to prove they can affect a pregnancy, but then others strongly believe they do. I believe they do.
My understanding of them is that they are a type of gas ( girls jump in if I'm wrong) that attack something foreign ie the embryo when placed in the uterus.
There is theories that the nk cells increase with failed pregnancies. Therefore it becomes even harder to hold on to a pregnancy.
There is a blood test that can be taken and a biopsy at a certain time of your menstrual cycle for confirmation.
There is a thread on here called 'nk cells', there is another thread the ' colorado protocol' which is protocol that has been introduced to fight against nk cells. However some FS will just put you on a course of steroids (prednisone) for them as this has been the standard treatment for them so far before the Colorado protocol was introduced.
It is so hard when we want something so badly and it seems to be so easy for others- but really we don't know any of their circumstances.
I struggle with dates to, as when I find out I'm pregnant I always associate it with another date that is already significant. Ie birthdays, anniversaries. So a reminder when this significant date comes around to what could have been. I'm not looking forward to Xmas day as that's when I would have been due this year.
I try and not let myself jump ahead too much and just get through each day one by one- but it never happens as you are so excited that it could finally be coming true and then you start planning for the future.
You have youth on your side which is great, as your eggs and partners sperm should be of good quality- not old like mine and dhs lol.
You sound as though you are in good hands with your FS as they are already doing some investigations.
We are all here for each other any time x
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29-06-2012 15:03 #121
29-06-2012 15:15 #122
FS is still putting me in a short course of prednisone like last transfer but only for a week, he said the side effects are too great for me personally. (weight gain, sleep disturbances cause my migraines etc)
He said the week of steroids should strengthen the lining, it's the exact same thing we did with last transfer. And the pregnancy did hold, its just the embryo wasn't meant for life.
Which folate do you use? I've just got the I-folic blackmores I think without getting up to check!
FS said he didn't want to change anything as I did get pregnant and the cause wasn't with me, it was the POC(product of conception) So his theory is why change something if it's not broken?
In hindsight I just wish we had the POC tested with my other d&c to see if it was the same reason- a chromosome abnormality. Then we would have more to work with and maybe more of a reason to head down the path of PGD.
29-06-2012 15:24 #123
Hey Zakmick, thank you for reply.
The NK cells sound horrible, I really hope I do not have them
My mum has an autoimmune disease called Sarcoidosis and has been on predinsone for a long time, it has given her awful side effects and im not sure I am ready to put myself through that.
I have not heard of the colorado protocol but I will have a look and bring it up with my FS.
I always get a great number of eggs and embies. The first time I got 11 eggs 7 of which my partners sperm fertilised and 2 made it blast stage. We froze one and miscarried that first cycle. The FET resulted in BFN, I believe because I jumped straight into it the month after having the m/c which I now regret doing...
This second round of IVF I got 15 eggs, 9 fertilised with donor sperm (my partner has very poor sperm so we turned to donor thinking that it may prevent another miscarriage...we were wrong.) 2 of the embies made it blast stage and we transferred both..another m/c. My FS only does 5 day transfers and for some reason a lot of my embies start deteriorate after day 4..but the ones that make it to blasts are always excellent quality.
I am always on a very low dose of stims because of my age and high risk of OHSS. My new FS believes there is nothing wrong with my egg quality but my old FS put me on a very low dose of DHEA for 3 months....odd how doctors oppinions can differ so much. I do trust my new FS a lot though, he has been fantastic through out everything.
Sorry I hope all that made sense.
Im so sorry that Christmas day will now be a sad time for you.
All of this really is just not fair
Are you cycling at the moment? I hope you get your sticky BFP very soon
29-06-2012 15:46 #124
Sorry dandelion I'm on my phone and can't read your signature I just went in and looked at through your profile. Wow you have been through a lot this last year!!
My FS doesn't like the side effects of the steroids either, so he puts me on a 5-7 day course so the effects will be minimal.
No I'm not cycling ATM, wanting to have AF before we transfer another, looks like it will be middle of Aug, the other reason too is I have to have an arthroscope done on my knee so I want to be pain and drug free before transfer too.
Can't remember did you try TESA with partner first before going to donor? Where they take the semen straight from the testicles through a syringe?
We are doing ICSI as DH has a low sperm count (we weren't technically told the reason for it) but we have been discussing TESA which he is not thrilled about- ouch lol!!
Makes complete sense what you wrote too, your new FS do they only grow to day 5s too? I've had success with both day 3s and 5s, my clinic have actually advised me when growing to day 5s to freeze them at Day 3 as they were afraid I wouldn't have any to freeze last cycle.
I actually am starting to think that the best place for the embryo to grow is within us and not in an artificial environment. Idk if we do another stim cycle my thoughts may change again.
Last edited by Zakmick; 29-06-2012 at 15:52.
29-06-2012 23:31 #125
The Following User Says Thank You to Fortitude For This Useful Post:
01-07-2012 23:16 #126
How was your weekend?
Being so bad, just got AF and have been eating crap! Currently sitting here eating cheese with Cadbury marble chocolate together. So wrong but so yummy!!
02-07-2012 10:45 #127
after a missed miscarriage in feb, i am in the 2ww for our 2nd ivf. i still dont feel like its happening, i think i am petrified of what happened last time happening again. the months of build up, the elusive BFP!!, the excitement, the plans, the big dreams, then BAM!!! no heartbeat, d&c and back to being an empty shell in a matter of days.
i feel very distant to the whole process this time, so much so that i forgot my first pessary on the night of the transfer!
for everyone, wherever you are in your journey!
02-07-2012 14:44 #128
Dandelion. "Welcome", sort of. Sorry to see you here as well. I've been doing ALOT of research into Clexane and implantation issues. NK cells are a kind of cleaner cell. They live in your uterus and also in your blood. The ones in the uterus prevent implantation as they treat the embryo like an invader. I gather that the process can cause small clots and prevent the placenta from starting to form because of the lack of blood flow from the clots. Aspirin prevents clots at one part of the process and clexane at another. Therefore they are not interchangeable and both help. Prednisolone helps with the immune issues that cause the rejection by suppressing the immune system altogether. As already stated by Dandelion, steroids can really mess with your body so generally as part of the protocol you won't be on them for long. Just the implantation time I think.
I had my appt with my FS on Friday. I have been looking into possible implantation issues. I asked to use clexane but got refused without medical proof that I need it. I am really disappointed in this response. I got a referral to a Dr Roger Hart but warned that he may not agree to test me because of my age. If that turns out to be the case, then I don't know what next. What if I do have NK cells? How on earth do I find out if they won't even test me? It is making me feel quite upset even now at the thought of it. I think it likely that I do have them as I get other immune issues so it would make sense that I have this one. I have had pregnancy symptoms all but one time but only had implantation the once. It is also an issue if I move onto Embryo donation as I'd have implantation issues there as well. I really can't bear the thought of not being able to find out. It is difficult for me to move onto another FS. The ones at my clinic are all in gynae practices as well so have 3 month waiting lists to see them. There is only 1 other clinic with donor sperm and it is a 6 month waitign list and very expensive to access it. the FS there told me he'd put me on clexane but I can't afford their sperm. Had way more wine on the weekend than I should trying to absorb it all and wonder what next.
Thanks for reading my gripe and good luck to everyone
02-07-2012 18:12 #129
Off to my FS tomorrow to debrief after my BFP turned BFN cycle. Then plan for this cycle- FET. Scared out of my brain- what if it happens again?
02-07-2012 20:14 #130
Hi fortitude - I am also afraid of it happening again. No one can tell you if it will or not, but I really hope all of the ladies on this thread get to experience their dream of a healthy pregnancy really soon.
Net - after reading your post it really reminds me of how lucky I am to have the FS that I do. He tries everything. Absolutely everything and anything. He is willing to treat many of his patients as if they have NK cells so im on aspirin, clexane, prednisone etc. he could do the test, but all it will prove is that I need those medications anyway so he just does them. I really hope you get the answers you are looking for. I would be asking what the serious risks are if you did end up using them. I doubt there are any serious risks so what's the harm? Maybe try that line with your FS. Little lose but potentially alot to gain....
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