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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witwicky View Post
    Why does it **** you off? I would like to discuss this with you. I do NOT think that people who believe in God are stupid?! I have reiterated that several times. I was merely explaining some studies which indicate the statistical level of education of those who believe in creationism compared to those who don't.

    I have extremely smart friends who believe in god and we happily discuss these studies all the time.
    If you don't believe in that then you wouldn't have posted it. I wouldn't pop statistics up if I thought they were a load of crap. That's all I'm saying. Like I said before, I'm not going to discuss it any further.
    These threads on religion are getting old and the sad thing is that people are going around and around in circles and repeating themselves over and over.
    Over and out. I'm not going to bother looking into these threads anymore. They're a waste of my time and although I try not to let some of the replies upset me, they do.

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  3. #112
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    i'm not 100% sure on what it is, but is that the theory that god created bascially everything?

    If they tried to teach my daughter that as fact i'd be taking her out of class.

  4. #113
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    Witwicky is offline A closed mouth gathers no foot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkCherry View Post
    If you don't believe in that then you wouldn't have posted it. I wouldn't pop statistics up if I thought they were a load of crap. That's all I'm saying. Like I said before, I'm not going to discuss it any further.
    These threads on religion are getting old and the sad thing is that people are going around and around in circles and repeating themselves over and over.
    Over and out. I'm not going to bother looking into these threads anymore. They're a waste of my time and although I try not to let some of the replies upset me, they do.
    Honestly, I get really jack of explaining myself on here over and over again. Whatever. I'm over it.

  5. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witwicky View Post
    The reference isn't about it *lowering* IQ though. The studies explain that the higher IQ someone has, the less likely it is that they will believe in creationism. Likewise, similar studies have found that the higher education a person has (note: not IQ, but education), the less likely they believe in creationism.

    I've said it before and I will say it again (because it seems to get misinterpreted every single time) - this does NOT mean that people who believe in a god are stupid.
    I agree with you as often people with high IQs are in the science/math world and creationism is not so logical.

    There is a place for both theories but not in the science classroom. I'm a scientist as well as a science teacher. I would not teach it. And yes I'm also religious.

    I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but the catholic church as an entity have agreed that evolution did happen.

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  7. #115
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    There is no way to reconcile our current level of scientific understanding with creationism. Therefore, anybody who is taught creationism is put into a position where they must compromise their intellectual acumen in order to accept creationism, or they are forced to accept clearly ridiculous statements (god planted the fossils for some reason, god fiddled with carbon dating, etc).

    This is the true danger to me - I cannot see any way in which someone can believe in creationism without it impairing their capacity for critical thinking.

    IMO.

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  9. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witwicky View Post
    The reference isn't about it *lowering* IQ though. The studies explain that the higher IQ someone has, the less likely it is that they will believe in creationism. Likewise, similar studies have found that the higher education a person has (note: not IQ, but education), the less likely they believe in creationism.

    I've said it before and I will say it again (because it seems to get misinterpreted every single time) - this does NOT mean that people who believe in a god are stupid.
    ….So…. what does it mean, then, Witwicky? By posting that information, what are you trying to say, if not that people who believe in religion are less intelligent?

    It is well known in the field of Education that IQ is an extremely inaccurate, outdated, and old-fashioned method of testing intelligence – it is not often used in Australia (we do NOT test the IQ of each student in the class), and it is rarely used except to ASSIST in the diagnosis of a disability. How many of you have actually had your IQ tested, let alone SEEN an IQ test? (And not an online ‘Test your IQ for free! Bullsh!t test, but an actual IQ test?) IQ tests are only legally accessible by very few professions. As PP mentioned, often the people with higher IQ’s are less able to function normally in society. I’ll say it again: it is an INNACURATE, OUT DATED AND OLD FASHIONED method of testing intelligence, and it is NOT COMMONLY USED in Australia to measure intelligence. So, lets put the IQ and religion thing to rest, hey Witwicky?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    Regina, from your perspective and experience as a teacher, could you give me a basic outline of what you consider to be the 'theory of creation' and the 'theory of evolution' in a scientific sense please?

    (and yes, I'm all for critical thought being encouraged in children. And I think that is the very essence of science really?
    I understand the law wasn't suggesting the teaching of creation - but it allowing teachers to question scientific theories with the idea of creation in it's place, without prosecution... it's really going to depend on the individual teacher I suppose.)
    I’m not going to go into details the entire curriculum and teaching methods used, as it is WAY to long-winded and complicated to explain a science curriculum that takes years to develop. But I will do my best to summarise again…
    As I said, we don’t just teach facts (or what we believe is fact) – eg, the curriculum consists of more than just ‘The bible says God created the world in seven days. Evolution says that species change by adapting to their environment. Next topic.’ It is more teaching METHOD than teaching CONTENT. We use critical inquiry and discussion amongst students and teacher. Much like the discussion that is occurring right now in this thread, but it is done in a respectful way, lol. The students hear what the theory of evolution suggests. The students hear what the bible suggests. We discuss the facts and evidence of both, and we discuss what we each believe. How can the two fit together? How do they contradict each other? How can we reconcile these ideas?

    As I said previously, my experience is from teaching in a private Christian school. I don’t have experience of teaching science in a public school (Maybe someone else here does and can share that experience). But I would be more concerned for our public school students if they WERE just presented a bunch of facts to copy off the blackboard, with no discussion or critical inquiry involved. That is not education.

    This doesn’t just happen in one lesson. It happens over years of science lessons. Yes, it is complicated. But we are not afraid to teach our children complicated concepts – heck, that is what school is about. We are not just feeding them facts, we are educating them about the world, and teaching them to think for themselves.

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  13. #118
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    I agree with what mintie has said.


    And find the above OUTDATED theory rant quite humorous in the context of this thread

    Sent from my LT15i using BubHub

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    Christianity isn't facts, it's faith.

    Evolution is fact, it's evident everywhere.

    Evolution can be observed everywhere, it can be replicated in a lab, it is probably the most powerful process there is. The processes of evolution transform over millenia of millenia single-celled forms into myriad complex life forms from gum trees to polar bears to humpback whales to gorillas to platypus to kiwi birds.

    We are failing our children when we don't teach them about this powerful process.

    50,40,30,20 years ago, nobody would have even considered teaching creationism.

    It is quite shocking that it's entering main****** thinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AM View Post
    No way!! That's insane.

    I even get cranky at Christian instruction here in NZ schools, I would FAR rather the children were taught comparative religion.

    I just don't get why Christians are given such preference for this, why aren't Muslim faiths taught, and Buddhist, and and and....? Wierd.
    I think you'll find that in countries such as India would give preference to Hindu in their education. Countries such as Saudi Arabia would give preference to the Islamic faith in their education. Australia gives preference to the Chrsitian faith. It is steeped in our culture. I do believe it is changing - Christianity is given MUCH less preference than it used to, public schools are no longer allowed to sing christmas carols such as 'Silent Night' or read the Christmas (Nativity) Story. I have seen in kindergartens, however, where children are taught about Buddha, and they have brought in a statue of Buddha where the children are told to each kiss his feet. So there is DEFINITELY more preference given to other religions in the public education system. In an Islamic school, they will teach their beliefs, and I do not expect that they should teach Christian beliefs. In a Christian school, they will teach their beliefs, and I do not expect that they should teach Islamic beliefs.

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