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22-04-2012 11:29 #131
22-04-2012 12:03 #132
My kids might grow up to have a passion for sport or dance and have no interest what so ever in learning about Religion...so no, no 'poking' ..but no putting it off limits either
I had a book called 'The little book of bible stories' when I was a child... and whilst consider that much more age appropriate - I put it in the same category as other fable books with a moral at the end of the story.
Putting it in a 'Religion vs Science' sense for this thread ---
I recall a story about King Solomon, (in short) ..he was presented with one baby and two mothers claiming ownership... so he called for a sword and suggested the baby be cut in half. One woman stepped forward and said something along the lines of(sorry memory is fuzzy - I had the book when I was about 5) , 'No! No... Please Lord it is her baby give the baby to her!!' - the other woman declared, "divide it".
So King Solomon KNEW the baby belonged to the woman who was willing to give it up.
--- Whilst that is a nice warm fuzzy, emotional story.
Science has a way of working out via DNA who a baby's true biological parent is.
..no need to draw a sword
..and I won't be 'poking' this book, 'The Magic of Reality' in my childrens faces either. (I actually bought it for myself - aswell as the adults version and childrens version of 'A short history of nearly everything' ..basically because I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed and enjoy reading more simple explanations..plus the pictures help me undestand it ) ...The book with be there for times when my kids ask me various questions...
Another chapter in the book covers 'the sun' --- it gives a few mythological stories at the start of the book. These stories mainly talk about the sun going 'Up & Down' ....Science has taught us that the Sun doesn't actually go up and down... Thanks to the 'Theory of Relativity' we know understand that it is the Earth rotation that makes it appear that way.
--- I can't imagine there would be many people alive today that dipute the fact that the Earth rotates (how we get night and day) and that it Orbits around the Sun.
That is "Reality".
And yep - there is a chapter that talk about 'who was the first person?' ..again it covers MANY creation stories (not just the Judeo-Christian myth) ...and then talks about the evidence people have found (a lot of this evidence was only discovered in the late 1800's...so you put that in perspective, together with the fact that studies of DNA have only been around since teh early 1950's ~ OFCOURSE science and most of it's discoveries are still in the 'controversial' stage when comparing them alongside various Religious beliefs) ...ooops - where was I? ...ummm - yep, found evidence that links humans to other primates.
It explains 'The First Human' is truly hard to pinpoint because of the way evolution works.
Just the same as you can't say there was a 'first rabbit' ..because evolution doesn't produce totally different offspring of a certain species from a parent of a different species...it is a gradual process.
And it is because we have evidence (both fossils and DNA) of this in the natural world that I (personally) prefer my children learning this information.
[pretty sure the Pope and many Catholics 'accept' Evolution these days]
..not sure of the percenatge of people that 'believe' fossils are there because either "God is testing us'' or "the Devil put them there"?
Listen, I appreciate Religion and how it works, I understand why it is in our modern socities and believe it contributes a great deal to culture.
I just don't think it is neccessary to 'follow it' -- I can study it, undestand it, gain perspective from various people and their various interpretations of the same book of Holy Scriptures.
The only way I see Science and Religion in the same category is that BOTH are trying to explain the things we see and experience around us. Religion takes it to a 'supernatural' (untouchable, must have 'faith' [belief without evidence]) level...and Science explores the 'natural' (what we can touch, and investigate [with evidence]) level.
To things we don't have answers for; Science leaves the question 'open' - furthering investigation. Religion answers it with 'God did it' (sorry, but I personally find that stifling)
I do understand and appreciate that many people find comfort and security in their chosen Religion and obviously this is why these threads often get heated and emotional.
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22-04-2012 12:05 #133
...apologies for the essay
22-04-2012 12:43 #134
22-04-2012 12:58 #135
My MIL is Irish, so obviously catholic. She bought my daughter a Noah's Ark story book. It's nice and colourful with a rainbow, so it interested my daughter. Anyway, I didn't mind it, because I can just say it's a story like any other book she has, but I was mortified when i first started reading it to her because the first page or so says how god told Noah to build an ark because he was going to punish all the wicked people in the world. If she asks me to read the book, I skip that sentence.
Totally wrong and inappropriate for a children's book.
We have Christian friends, Hindu friends, Muslim friends, atheist friends, so I don't feel I need to teach my children anything about religion until they ask.
22-04-2012 14:20 #136
22-04-2012 15:20 #137
22-04-2012 15:27 #138
but the difference here is that a great number of people teach the bible stories to be truth.
And the 'nasty witch' in Snow White is proven to be 'the bad guy' and once her plan is foiled, everyone lives happily ever after.
..but in the bible story the 'dude who sends big flood to wipe out humanity' is the supposed 'good guy' who they need to obey..to live happily forever after.
Last edited by FiveInTheBed; 22-04-2012 at 18:48.
22-04-2012 17:20 #139
I'm glad you liked my term "poking" lol
Back in Solomon's day there was no DNA testing so obviously that wasn't a choice... so second best was to split the baby and do it the way u described in your post.. lol... I'm sure if Sol was around today he would have gone for the DNA testing as I would if ever it was necessary...
Science is cool and is naturally a part of everyday life and we Christians embrace is... Afterall it is our havenly Father who bestowed such intelligence upon us mere mortals so that we may explore our environment and understand it better
I do understand ur fairytale view of God as you have possibly not had the same spiritual experiences as some of us... Your spirituality is formed not purely by the school you went to or your parents beliefs.. It's does start off this way for some but it grows and develops and it's very real and personal/different for each one.. and I don't see it as indoctrination or brainwashing at all. I feel the power of God burning deep within me and have a sense of God around me... but I don't expect you to understand that...
22-04-2012 18:47 #140
Another story from that book I remember was the 'Plagues of Locusts' - the people of that time thought 'God' sent them to punish people, but we know now (thanks to observations made in science) that due to the cycles of weather affect growth of plant population and also growth of insect colonies - and quite often after floods or droughts - insect populations can have a massive 'boom'.
..but then again, you DO still have people out there that believe 'God' Controls the weather and sends tornadoes and bushfires to 'punish people'
...'Modern day christians' embrace science
it wasn't always the way throughout history.
I mentioned before in another post about the position of the sun and how we all know that the Earth orbits around the sun.
This "idea" was once 'contrary to scripture passages'
"Biblical references Psalm 93:1, 96:10, and 1 Chronicles 16:30 include text stating that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." In the same manner, Psalm 104:5 says, "the Lord set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Further, Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "And the sun rises and sets and returns to its place" etc"
...you might want to look up "Galileo" to read about what went on in the 1600's
I don't want to dismiss your spiritual experience.
And you were wrong to assume I haven't experienced anything like it
where we differ is you give your experience the name 'God, your heavenly Father'... which is fine by me, and I'm quite happy to leave the discussion there unless you wish to continue
[may I take the opportunity to point out here that you say it's NOT indoctrination or influence from your family -- I disagree...because had you been born in another country - you would be giving your spiritual experience totally different name, and you may even believe that there are more 'family members' in those supposed 'heavens']
...and I understand mine (and yes I've had a few 'moments' in my lifetime.) to be a chemical reaction in my body...serotonin, dopamine and endorphines etc pumping through my body that create certain visual and physical effects.
Funny thing in these threads, is quite often people choose to distance themselves from 'religion' and play the 'spirituality' card...
Which is fine by me -- I actually have more, respect, you could say ...for an "Agnostic Theist" who thinks that 'maybe' there is a 'higher power' out there beyond the cosmos - but doesn't give it a name, nor expect that it has laid down a law to follow.
Rocker, can you tell me when you had your first 'spiritual experience'?
and if it was before or after you were introduced to the idea of a God?
..sorry - I'm conversing with you and am not sure if you take the Bible 'literally' or 'metaphorically'.
Oh - and can I point out a didn't refer to God as a "fairy tale" - I was commenting on a post that compared the two.
But I do put the Bible in the same basket as say the Ancient Egyptians Mythology...an important piece of history.
By SeaShanty in forum Debate ItReplies: 3Last Post: 06-12-2012, 17:09
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