And re: how literally we take the bible - I don't have any reason to not to believe the stories are literal... I guess I've never really thought about it much? I've never really struggled with that as it all matches up so well I just believe it's right. As Regina said earlier, I believe the parables are just stories (as Jesus said). If the rest of the bible isn't literal I would be very sad. So many amazing miracles and promises of a wonderful Kingdom. I know it's real
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01-03-2012 22:29 #41
02-03-2012 08:45 #42Guest Guest
Firstly its the belief that to be born into flesh is to be born with sin.
Then the above passages would be saying that those who are baptized have their sins washed away and unite with God and Christ and join him in the resurrection.
In other words if a baby, child dies and hasn't been baptized they can't be part of the resurrection, they will die with sin, they won't go home to God etc etc.
It doesn't say anything about children but I have to say that I do think children can believe if they are shown how. I struggle to believe that God wouldn't save children who aren't baptised and I don't think children have sin. This is really the reason I do it symbolically that its my promise to God and us as a family to raise our children to believe, its like we're re-baptising ourselves because I stand up in church and make that promise during the baptism.
And again its introducing them to the 'flock' so its about joining in the church. I think its important to also accept that being part of a community and church means your also taking part in the churches beliefs and rituals because if your going to say "I'm catholic" then your part of that and what they represent and baptizing babies is an important part of the church.
Also I believe when Jesus submerged in water he did it symbolically, so I think baptism is up to the discretion of the individual to use symbolically. I know of people who've been baptised as children and do it again as adults and that's fine. Also in Orthodox babies and adults are submerged fully in water, in Catholic the baby gets some water on the head and thats done symbolically.
02-03-2012 08:56 #43
Thanks for replying to my queries - I'm obviously not Christian - but DO have an 'interest' in Religion in general and the effect it has on our society.
..and after listening to many different people I come away with slight understanding, but even more confusion
I think what confuses me is some people use the Bible as a 'base' for living a good life but don't take any of the stories literally and even remain 'agnostic' although taking the title of the church they were raised in - some even admit when asked that humans ancestors were not human [ie supporting evolution], but their take is that 'God' intervened at one point and 'introduced himself' to them, and that's what sets us [humans] apart from animals.
Some really truly insist that literally a man was 'made' out of dirt and then had his rib removed whilst in a trance and that a woman was made from that. [BUT the story of Lilith is more often than not left out of the equation when reciting how the first people came to be on Earth]
My MIL also 'believes' that Noah built the Ark - and took the animals two by two on this boat. When I asked how she thought a 500 or 600 year old man would build a boat big enough and be able to house animals thousands of animals?, some that are natural predators to others, how he fed them all?, how he disposed of all their poo?, how he got to and from all thedifferent countries?
- I was met with a shrug and an, 'I don't know, that's just what I've been taught and that's what I believe. God helped him.'
..which to ME sounds just as ridiculous as the story some people have been caught out teaching students at schools during RI that Dinosaurs ACTUALLY lived with man - God just used his magic to protect them.
Also - I'd like to know people's perssonal definition of BELIEVE - Is it that these are stories from your own personal family line and that's what you turn to for guidence when it comes to difficult parts of life?
Or is it 'truth' -- even the word 'truth' can be interpretted differently ...for one it might mean 'this is simply important to me' to another it might mean 'this actually happened it is FACT'
...to those who say it is FACT... how is that different to the Ancient Egyptians who 'believed' the world was a flat disk, made by a group of Gods and Goddesses, underneath a tunnel lay which led them to the afterlife, ad that the sun was rolled across the sky by a God that was in the form of a dung beetle?
02-03-2012 14:56 #44
I love hearing everyone's interpretations!
I don't take the bible literally , I think it's more of a guide to life with great stories, i also think the world was created in a few thousand or probably millions of years with G-DS guidance , I don't believe in original sin, I don't believe G-d would think a new born baby is born with sin, i believe Adam and eve were the first humans , but not the only ones
I think religion is a personal thing , humans make mistakes and sin , its
Impossible to be totally pure but I believe if you try your best at life and be a good person then that's all G-d asks
I think people " turn" to G-d in times of crisis because usually death or disease is so unknown and complicated we want to hope, we want this mysterious G-d to fix what science cannot, and yes miracles happen all the time that defy scientific explanation
I love religious history, ( especially jewish history) I am desperate to go to Israel and take my son, who I want to grow up learning about all religions and watching him
Discover his own G-d, while learning of his family history
My grandmother was religious and she was hoping the messiah would come before she died and she died believing she would see us all soon in the next life where we would all live on earth happily for eternity and you know what that doesn't sound so bad!
02-03-2012 15:12 #45
I hope that answers your question i think it can be difficult to understand someone else's belief system, so thanks for trying to see where we are coming from!
The Following User Says Thank You to Cinderella82 For This Useful Post:
02-03-2012 15:16 #46
02-03-2012 15:46 #47
I take the bible very literally, except for the parables or the things that are explicitly explained as a vision or dream. There are too many prophecies that have come true from the old testament (like countries overthrown in history) for me not to take it literally.
02-03-2012 15:48 #48
02-03-2012 16:05 #49
When you asked HOW he did it - came up with the answer, 'don't know - he just did' is preeeetty much blindy accepting it.
At one time in history God was responsible for plagues of Locusts and disease... we now know that no, these things occur naturally as part of our biological world and are not sent as punishments to particular people.
Just that ONE story about the Ark (there are many more) ...makes no sense in teh world we can see and touch, feel and investigate today... why did ALL of the marsupial animals from that ark seem to hop on down to Australia?
Doesn't it make more sense to say that the environment has shaped animals as they have grown and adapted over millions of years. Dismissing their individuality and putting it down to 'and god saw it was good' really baffles me.
And is it just as likely that a Donkey spoke as it is that a dung beetle rolled the sun across the sky?
Last edited by FiveInTheBed; 02-03-2012 at 16:18.
02-03-2012 16:05 #50Guest Guest
I like to think of it this way (regarding Noah's ark) when we 'see' things like the pyramids (and I studied architecture) how were these built? What did they use, did they have machinery we don't know about? How did they do it in the time frames? So many questions that still!!! to this day with all our knowledge we have questions and dont have the answers, maybe this way, maybe that way, ??
There are alot of un answered things in regards to structures and mans ability to build them. So Noah's Ark I believe can be very close to accurate as written in the bible, but because we don't see it or understand it, it's easier to say its just impossible.
Imagine the pyramids werent there, no pictures and only a story of them in a book that alot of people don't believe in, does it mean they never existed or werent possible to build?
Nothing in this world is impossible and we can't explain everything, having faith is just that, faith. You can't always have the answers and life is hard, living isn't easy, humans need help and God and other help people through life.
By FiveInTheBed in forum Religion / SpiritualityReplies: 7Last Post: 03-07-2012, 16:07
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