Modern day prophecies are discerned by the Holy Spirit. They must still be able to be backed by scripture and if anyone propheses anything different to what we've already been told we are told that they are false prophets. The thing about all the different people in the bible all being delusional etc, I don't find that to be true based on the fact that over 1000's of years without internet etc they were basically able to still write the same thing. The basics are all the same. They all speak of a coming Christ, being the one of God. They all speak of faith, the holy spirit all the same....they don't differ. They are not subject to 'chinese whispers' when it comes to the foundation of what they were saying to me it shows God work. The WAY they said it and the flourishes they may put in it are subject to man's personalities for sure. Also from what context they were writing, when how and why they were writing it and who they were writing to....all differ according to circumstances and the culture of the day. But the foundations of Christ, faith, God, the holy spirit, salvation etc etc are all the same. They flow well and can be referenced back 1000's of years without the people even knowing each other they were able to write with the same basic elemants intact. Some might even say that in the original hebrew and greek there is a pattern throughout that can only be possible through divine inspiration. Whether or not that's true, I don't really know or care.
Scripture to me, is the word of God. But Christ is the Word of God (capitals). There is only one Word and that is Christ....he is the Word and it is in him that I put my faith not necessarily in scripture, without the Word, scriptural word means nothing. Word of God is alive, it is spirit and it is written on the hearts of those who are born of the Spirit of God. It is deep within my core...cannot be shaken...will not move!
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03-03-2012 10:05 #251
03-03-2012 10:18 #252
03-03-2012 10:21 #253
Fulfilled prophesy is one of the many proofs we have that the Bible is completely accurate. Many prophecies can be proven through archaeology.
The Ancient Nation of Edom: the destruction of Edom and its capital city of Petra. Remember the movie “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade?” The last part where they go through a narrow canyon and into a temple in a lost city was filmed at Petra. What happened in the movie was . . . well, just a movie. For example, the “temple” is really a magnificent tomb cut into the cliff.
Edom was a very powerful nation and Petra was not only a great city, but Edom’s capital. The people of Edom were proud of the strength of their cities, over which Petra reigned supreme. Located next to the mountain (or mountain range) of Mount Seir, other nations and people often referred to Petra as “Mount Seir”—a symbol of their strength and lofty position. Unfortunately, they were a very evil nation and each of the many prophecies about them in the Bible includes God’s judgment of their actions and a description of their future destruction. The Old Testament book of Obadiah is completely devoted to this topic. Other examples include the following:
Ezekiel 25 (Estimated date of writing, 593-570 B.C.)
12 ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Because of what Edom did against the house of Judah by taking vengeance, and has greatly offended by avenging itself on them,”
13 therefore thus says the Lord GOD: “I will also stretch out My hand against Edom, cut off man and beast from it, and make it desolate from Teman; Dedan shall fall by the sword.” ’
Ezekiel 35 (Estimated date of writing, 593-570 B.C.)
1 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
2 “Son of man, set your face against Mount Seir and prophesy against it,
3 and say to it, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD:
“Behold, O Mount Seir, I am against you;
I will stretch out My hand against you,
And make you most desolate;
4 I shall lay your cities waste,
And you shall be desolate.
Then you shall know that I am the LORD.
5 “Because you have had an ancient hatred, and have shed the blood of the children of Israel by the power of the sword at the time of their calamity, when their iniquity came to an end,
6 therefore, as I live,” says the Lord GOD, “I will prepare you for blood, and blood shall pursue you; since you have not hated blood, therefore blood shall pursue you.
7 Thus I will make Mount Seir most desolate, and cut off from it the one who leaves and the one who returns.
8 And I will fill its mountains with the slain; on your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines those who are slain by the sword shall fall.’ ”
Jeremiah 49 (Estimated date of writing, 626-580 B.C.)
15 “For indeed, I will make you small among nations,
Despised among men.
16 Your fierceness has deceived you,
The pride of your heart,
O you who dwell in the clefts of the rock,
Who hold the height of the hill!
Though you make your nest as high as the eagle,
I will bring you down from there,” says the LORD.
17 “Edom also shall be an astonishment;
Everyone who goes by it will be astonished
And will hiss at all its plagues.
18 As in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah
And their neighbors,” says the LORD,
“No one shall remain there,
Nor shall a son of man dwell in it.”
Isaiah 34 (Estimated date of writing, 740-680 B.C.)
10 It shall not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke shall ascend forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
No one shall pass through it forever and ever.
11 But the pelican and the porcupine shall possess it,
Also the owl and the raven shall dwell in it.
And He shall stretch out over it
The line of confusion and the stones of emptiness.
12 They shall call its nobles to the kingdom,
But none shall be there, and all its princes shall be nothing.
13 And thorns shall come up in its palaces,
Nettles and brambles in its fortresses;
It shall be a habitation of jackals,
A courtyard for ostriches.
14 The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the jackals,
And the wild goat shall bleat to its companion;
Also the night creature shall rest there,
And find for herself a place of rest.
15 There the arrow snake shall make her nest and lay eggs
And hatch, and gather them under her shadow;
There also shall the hawks be gathered,
Every one with her mate.
Like the prophecies in the book of Obadiah (written about 585 B.C.), these were unbelievable predictions! It would be like predicting that everyone in Sydney will be killed and that NSW will become uninhabited except for wild animals—while the rest of Australia just continued on with life.
The history books tell us that Edom did OK for perhaps a hundred years after their final warning from God’s prophets. Then, during the fifth century (400-499) B.C. the “Edomites” were overwhelmed by other Arab groups. In turn, these groups were taken over by the Nabataeans, who started living in the area sometime around 312 B.C. By the way, the Nabataeans, not the Edomites, are the people who cut the temples in the sandstone walls of Petra. Under the Nabataeans, the city of Petra flourished until 106 A.D., when the Romans conquered Petra. From that time it slid into disuse, to the point that Edom was almost uninhabited from the 7th to the 12th century A.D. It revived slightly in the 12th century when the crusaders built a castle there called Sel. Afterward, it remained so forgotten that it had to be rediscovered in 1812 by Swiss traveler Johann. L. Burckhardt.
In 1865, George Smith included two accounts that described what Petra was like in his day. Compare these descriptions with the prophecies written in the Bible 2,400 years earlier.
Captain Mangles, who visited these ruins, says, that when surveying the scenery of Petra, ‘the screaming of the eagles, hawks, and owls, who were soaring over our heads in considerable numbers, seemingly annoyed at any one approaching their lonely habitation, added much to the singularity of the scene.’
So plentiful, as observed by Mr. Cory, ‘are the scorpions in Petra, that, though it was cold and snowy, we found them under the stones, sometimes two under one stone!’ The sheik, and his brother, who accompanied Mr. Cory, assured him that ‘both lions and leopards are often seen in Petra, and on the hills immediately beyond it, but that they never descend into the plain beneath.’
Edom was overthrown as a nation.
The nation and city have become a desolation, as Ezekiel 25:13; Ezekiel 35:4,7 and Isaiah 34:11-13 predicted.
It has never been populated again as Jeremiah 49:18 predicted.
It has had bloody history as Ezekiel 25:13 and 35:6,8 predicted.
Edom became populated with wild animals and birds (instead of people) as Isaiah 34:11, 13-15 predicted.
The likelihood that these prophecies came true by some random chain of events is all but impossible. (Compare Petra to Jerusalem, another city often torn by war, that still thrives today.) Also remember that this is a fraction of the Bible prophecies made about nations that have been fulfilled. The Bible contains many prophecies, all of which accurately predict future events—something that no other sacred writing can claim.
03-03-2012 10:24 #254
The other reason I believe the Bible and not other ancient texts is because the bible has so many interwoven theories an parallels that I believe it would be impossible for it to just be ramblings. All of those people were definitely God-inspired when they wrote them, even if their writing styles and personalities were different
03-03-2012 10:47 #255Senior Member
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03-03-2012 10:48 #256Senior Member
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I must admit that I haven't read the whole thread yet (there is a lot to get through!), so sorry if any of this has been said.
FiveInTheBed and others - I think it's great to discuss this things with you. Honestly! The thing is that comments that have been made can be interpreted as condescending or belittling. I sincerely apologise if that is not how they were meant, and I'll admit that it's easy to get defensive about these things. My belief in God and His word (the bible) is very important to me and others so, yeah, it's easy to feel defensive.
*Can't find the shaking hands icon otherwise I'd put it in here*
03-03-2012 11:02 #257Senior Member
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On the subject of reading and interpreting the bible....
There are a few things that most Christians 'bring' to their study of the bible
1. The belief that the bible is written by God, with man simply being his instrument. While the authors wouldn't have known more than their own culture and world, God did. I believe that this makes the bible relevant for all periods in time, and for all ages and backgrounds. So context to me means context within the bible as a whole.... I have noooo idea if this makes sense to anyone, but these are some of my thoughts.
2. Also, regarding original sin. I must admit I am not very familiar with that term, but I'll try to answer and hope that I have understood it correctly.
Although sin entered the world through Adam and Eve's sin, if it hadn't have been them, it would have been someone else. In other words we are ALL sinful. I think the word 'sin' is often misunderstood. The world in full of really good people, in fact, some of the nicest, best, people I know aren't Christians. Being sinful or 'sin free' is not just about doing good things or abstaining from bad things, but rather putting ourselves in the place of God, because this is human nature, we are all sinful.
At the crux (no pun intended) of the Christian belief is the belief that we are all sinful and the consequence of sin is death and suffering... but it doesn't stop there, if we believe in Him and that Jesus (the only perfect man ever to live, also God's son) died and came back to life, taking the punishment for us on himself, then we will have eternal life.
My brain is so foggy today, so I have no idea if I have made sense, but I hope this helps someone at least a little bit.
03-03-2012 11:04 #258
03-03-2012 11:07 #259Senior Member
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03-03-2012 11:09 #260
By FiveInTheBed in forum Religion / SpiritualityReplies: 7Last Post: 03-07-2012, 16:07
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