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  1. #1
    GluttonForPunishment's Avatar
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    Default *SPIN OFF* Can feminism and chivalry co-exist?

    How exciting! My first spin off thread!

    Ok, so having read the "can you be a feminist and traditional etc" thread, it got me thinking. Is there still room for chivalry? For doors being opened for ladies? For seats on buses to be offered? All of that kind of thing. Can the two co-exist or not?
    Last edited by GluttonForPunishment; 31-01-2012 at 09:28. Reason: Can't spell!!

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    Yes. If someone wants to offer the seat, I think it's nice, but definitely not expected. Sometimes I will be on a bus and sit down with the thought that if it becomes crowded I prefer to stand. So yes, someone can give up their seat. On the topic of holding doors open, it would be very rude to let it close, so yes, politeness in that regard I do expect. Not to stand there holding it, but hold it until someone else grabs it. But I have just come from the school where people hold the gate or classroom door until the person behind grabs it.

    I don't put a gender on it though.

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    I wouldn't expect someone to stand for me on a bus simply because they are male, I don't quite understand that logic actually. I, being female, would stand for an elderly man or woman, pregnant woman, or disabled person, or someone with children who needs the seat more than I do.

    As for doors being held open, I really can't think of one situation where I haven't held a door open for someone else approaching or vice versa.

    I think most people hold the door for the next person approaching no matter their gender.

    My DP insists on holding heavy shopping bags or carrying DS when he's acting like a baby but I think that has more to do with my back problems moreso than what's between my legs.

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    Absolutely. I think chivalry is more about consideration of other human beings than it is about gender.

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    Chivalry isn't about men doing stuff only for women is it? It's just about generally doing nice stuff for others that you don't actually have to do? (I think mostly in regards to knights, but obviously not so much these days...).

    Anyway, if one is simply courteous to another human being then I think fine. If a man offers his seat, opens doors, etc etc ONLY to women BECAUSE they are women and he is a man, I think that's a bit... gross. It would make me feel uncomfortable that I was intentionally being treated that way just because I was the owner of a vagina and he was not.

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    This was the little article I read about it teh other day

    *dies of embarrassment because it is from Cleo - it popped up on MSN homepage and I couldn't resist teh urge to read*

    snippet -
    In a perfect society where both genders are treated the same, chivalry would be irrelevant, replaced with a sense of common courtesy towards everyone. You’d open the door for an elderly man negotiating a heavy bag, you’d give up your train seat to a kid struggling with a broken leg ... Moran says, “Seeing the world as ‘The Guys’, male and female alike, is important.
    http://cleo.com.au/are-we-just-feigning-feminism.htm
    Last edited by FiveInTheBed; 31-01-2012 at 10:39.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    Chivalry isn't about men doing stuff only for women is it? It's just about generally doing nice stuff for others that you don't actually have to do? (I think mostly in regards to knights, but obviously not so much these days...).

    Anyway, if one is simply courteous to another human being then I think fine. If a man offers his seat, opens doors, etc etc ONLY to women BECAUSE they are women and he is a man, I think that's a bit... gross. It would make me feel uncomfortable that I was intentionally being treated that way just because I was the owner of a vagina and he was not.
    I didnt know about the men only thing so I googled

    "
    chiv·al·ry

       [shiv-uhl-ree] Show IPA
    noun, plural -ries for 6. 1. the sum of the ideal qualifications of a knight, including courtesy, generosity, valor, and dexterity in arms.

    2. the rules and customs of medieval knighthood.

    3. the medieval system or institution of knighthood.

    4. a group of knights.

    5. gallant warriors or gentlemen: fair ladies and noble chivalry"

    Id say as a general rule its men only who can display chivalry.

    Do I think they can co-exist, sure I do! A Man can show chivalry and also except the female equivalent from his female opposite. I think its nice some times for a man to take time out to take that little bit of extra consideration.

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    Can I add a spin off within your spin off?
    (CBF starting another thread ..and I know this topic is discussed quite regularly in here with two distinct sides usually being taken and one of those sides being labelled - Feminists)


    ...can a Stripper or Pron worker be a Feminsist?
    Last edited by FiveInTheBed; 31-01-2012 at 11:10.

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    I definitely agree that doing something "chivalrous" based on no reason other than gender is just sexist and reflects an implicit inequality.
    DP does do things like carry the heavy grocery bags but he is physically much stronger than me so I think it's fair enough in situations like that... But the feminist in me always offers to help anyway

    oh with money - when our income is equal we take it in turns to buy drinks/dinners/etc. I think having the male automatically pay these days isn't right at all and encourages the idea that women are greedy and lazy and that feminism=misandry...
    Chivalry definitely needs to go both ways!
    Last edited by deku; 31-01-2012 at 10:53.

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    If a man I was out with opened the door for me or paid for dinner or helped me carry something heavy or offered me his jacket if it was cold simple because I was a woman then I would think he was sweet and caring and he would probably get lucky...lol

    To me it has nothing to do with feminism.

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