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  1. #51
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    We all attended a church of England private school, not because it was C of E but because it was a great school, my dad absolutely did not want to baptise us as he wanted us to choose our own faith , which was great as all 3 of us are definitely not church if England or Christian for that matter !

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    Just to throw out a few ideas here. Somebody's gotta play devil's advocate, right?

    Ok, so don't you think it's odd that the court is forcing the mother to pay all court costs? This is no simple "two parents bickering" I think, there's more to it. Now, I think that some people are confusing non-belief as apathy. Just because some of us don't believe in a higher being doesn't mean that we're happy to see our child placed into a belief that they haven't chosen. The child in question is 7 years old! What decisions do YOU let your 7 year old make? What clothes they're wearing? That's about as deep and as serious a decision as a 7 year old should be making. The choosing of a faith is a deeply important thing to an individual and if the father of this child believes in that as much as I do then I can see why he would not oblige.

    Now, as to hyphenating. For the last 7 years that child has associated their identity with their name. Is it not conceivable that changing that child's name could be detrimental to their self-identity?

    The reason I mention this is that there have been plenty of posts by people finding it difficult to change their child's name because of a difficult ex and the reason they give is that the child struggles with their identity because the step brothers etc around them have different names. But it could also go the other way too! And if the court has SO found in favour of the dad here, it's possible that the child doesn't want to change their name and has also possibly shown distress at the thought of doing so.

    For the record, I have given permission for my kids to hyphenate their names with ex-DW's should they and her request it. I merely want to throw this out there to offer a different view for people to think about.

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  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by GluttonForPunishment View Post
    Now, I think that some people are confusing non-belief as apathy. Just because some of us don't believe in a higher being doesn't mean that we're happy to see our child placed into a belief that they haven't chosen.

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    i agree with the courts, this young girl is SEVEN years old!! she's not a baby anymore. why mess with her name? provided her dad is still in her life(which by the sounds of his fighting then he is!)

    it sounds like she's maybe always wanted her daughter baptised but he hasn't so now they're divorced she's going to p!ss him off. obviously i dont know each side.. but thats how it comes across.

    i think the ruling was correct.

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    I am agnostic and definitely not Christian but I imagine it could be extremely painful for a Christisn to have their child not baptised, as (in their eyes) it might mean they can't go to heaven if they died, etc.

    On another note, my daughter chose to hyphenate her name when she was 7 to take up her step-dad's surname. As her surname was actually already hyphenated, it's rather cumbersome lol. But my point is that it was something she did off her own bat at age 7 (her own father is deceased).

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    Children shouldnt be baptised anyway, its not a biblical practice, its a man made tradition.

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    Ok, so don't you think it's odd that the court is forcing the mother to pay all court costs?
    No. I don't think it's odd. I think this judgment is a key element in this topic which has been confused with a religious debate. The refusal to allow the baptism was just one aspect of the Court's ruling.

    According to the reports on this case that I have read, the Court so ordered the mother to pay costs on account of it ruling that the mother's action was frivolous and believed that the mother chose to "agitate matters by bringing minor matters to the Court".

    Now before everyone jumps on the word "minor", the Court cannot recognise the religious significance of the ritual as such but takes into account the father's wishes as the child's other parent and the case as a whole. As the parents have been involved in litigious action for quite some time - I don't know how long, reports alluded to years - then as you can imagine the Court gets fed up with cases such as this. You need to be able to show a Court that what you seek is absolutely vital for the child's needs and also needs to show how the Court erred in its previous orders. She couldn't so she lost and because she intitiated the action she pays the costs.

    Whether you agree with baptism or not is irrelevant. Touting that it shouldn't happen because it's a manmade tradition is not only unhelpful but ignorant.

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    I would not be happy if someone baptised DD I am an atheist, that is MY choice. If my DD wants a religion then she should investigate as many as possible before deciding on one. At age 7, I doubt this child would have done so- she is going with what she has been instructed or indoctrinated in. I agree with PP's who have said that religion should be an adult choice. I don't believe in forcing beliefs on children and IMO all schools should be secular.
    I'm wondering if the christian school was possibly a compromise on the father's part? My DH has made such a compromise with his ex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by missie_mack View Post
    It is all well and good to say 'I would be livid' but we need to remember it isn't a stranger organising for the child to be baptised, its a parent. Surely both parents have equal rights to decide on such things? And if one parent doesn't believe and one does surely the middle ground is that pouring some water and oil over the baby in the name of 'imaginary friends' (as my inlaws call it) is of no harm to the child?
    ....that's not middle ground. That's siding with the mother's wishes over the fathers. In this case the father's wishes are actually closer to middle ground. Let her go to the christian school, thereby getting an education in the mother's chosen religion, but allow her to make her own formal choice as an adult. In the mean time she can learn about all sorts of religion if the father wants to teach her and she can make an informed decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    ....that's not middle ground. That's siding with the mother's wishes over the fathers. In this case the father's wishes are actually closer to middle ground. Let her go to the christian school, thereby getting an education in the mother's chosen religion, but allow her to make her own formal choice as an adult. In the mean time she can learn about all sorts of religion if the father wants to teach her and she can make an informed decision.
    Whist I see your point I think it's safer to err on the side of caution, you cannot undo being baptized, you can however have it done at a later age.

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