Hi, just wondering if I can join this thread. My husband and I have been TTC for nearly 6 years and most recently we have done 4 fully stimmulated cycles and are about to head into our 5. We originally started iVF due to MFI but have since found out that although I'm perfectly healthy I just have 'bad eggs'. We have only ever transferred two not so good embryos along our journey and unfortunately it doesn't look good for my eggs. I know I haven't done as many cycles as some on here but each failed cycle breaks my heart and its getting harder to put it back together again, so just wondering if I qualify as a long termer?
Hope everyones cycles are going well.
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26-07-2012 19:48 #891Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
27-07-2012 05:53 #892Senior Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Abubby welcome. This is a great thread. Unfortunately we all understand the heart ache of IVF and there is loads of support and a great place for advice.
27-07-2012 06:39 #893
I recently joined this thread too and all ready feel welcome and have been given great advice. It's a tough road we are on but with this group around me I think it will be easier.
Has anyone taken zinc before? As all our cells require zinc in their make-up, I have started taking this as of yesterday too ( TCM recommended). It's important for sperm production too.
Do any of your partners take vitamin support? If we do another cycle DH is taking zinc, vitamin c and menevit. FS recommend menevit and TCM the other two vitamins. Vit C and zinc are vital app for the swimmers (or lots of oysters)
So I started yesterday
- calcium, magnesium and vit D (all combined in one tablet, I have them 2x twice a day and are equivalent to caltrate if had this way), i need the magnesium for cramps and RSL but it will only be 800 iu of Vit D
- zinc +
- coq10 only recommended dose of 150 mg
Today I'll start the baby aspirin.
With the ladies above and the vitamin/ mineral regimen, do you do this with a full stim cycle as well as FET.
I read on another thread from the conference in Istanbul that there is still no solid proof of NK cells being a cause to why a pregnancy does not continue and whether prednisone does anything to support.
Another thing was that the conference was supporting doing all freezes after stim cycles- to allow the female body to be recovered after epu. We did this last cycle, as I develop mild Ohss and it was the best thing we did.
27-07-2012 11:07 #894
Katiana and Abubby, the latest warrior women
Welcome to the thread girls xx
As Loveabug said, there is a huge amount of joint knowledge in here. Tho ive now FINALY graduated, i still hope to give support and advice if im able. We do understand that our dreams, for what ever reason, are taking longer than many. The pain invelvod can be crushing, but the support in here is amazing. I wish you all the best for a happy ending on your quest for a baby xxx
27-07-2012 11:23 #895
Zakmick, I never had much luck with FET cycles. With me fresh was always best. But I took the following if it was a FET or a stim.
i was on with vit D for my Kallmanns, elavit, cQ10 (till et) fish oil (till et or preg bt can't remember), progynova, crinone (after EPU). I did a few cycles with prednisolone and baby aspirin too (more out of well why not...) but that was before they found a major contributing factor to my recurrent miscarriages. I never took herbs, but was seeing an acupuncturist specialising in fertility.
I got OHSS twice but still went to et. Again for me fresh et's had a better chance.
DH never took special vitamins, his swimmers were always fine tho.
It sounds like a great plan you have. When is your next cycle?
Also, just adding a question. Your last m/c had a chromosome issue, have you considered anuploidy testing? It can only be done on fresh embies, but you will find out if they have any issues before et. I found it useful to see on average how many of my embys were duds, which explained somewhat potential cause of m/c. Also ment that I could only keep the genetically ok embys to freeze.
Last edited by Marzi; 27-07-2012 at 11:29.
27-07-2012 12:06 #896
We have 2 frosties left and have discussed pgd with FS, his feelings were though, that as both our individual karotype tests came back normal that the odds are in our favour for a correctly fertilised embie. He was not keen to go down this path, in the end though it's our choice.
FS stressed to us that taking a cell to test can damage a perfectly good embryo- this is really concerning DH.. And me to an extent, but I'm also in the mindset I can't emotionally keep going down this path and just hope that this one could be the one. I like the idea of more certainty.
However with that said I think DH and I will have a serious chat about the further testing if unsuccessful on the next transfer.
Unfortunately dh's swimmers have declined since we started in 2006.
Question, why did you stop the cq10 and fish oil at ET or BT?
27-07-2012 12:51 #897
Do you girls mind if i joing you. I see some farmiliar faces too (girls who i was wishing would have big pregnant bellies by now).
I def am not an IVF warrior yet, but i think we have a long way to go. 3 perfect blasty transfers, 3 early miscarraiges so i'm going for the endometrial biopsy to try and stiumlate my linning, then having a double embryo transfer in september with one of our frosties.
All of you girls are so brave to be going for so long, im going to go back read the whole thread tonight.
27-07-2012 14:38 #898
Re: Supplements during stim cycles.
For some of my cycles I had been on many of the supplements you are trying. For my final (successful) cycle I'd given up hope so I was only taking folate. But I had been doing vegetable powders and probiotics and stuff for a couple of months prior to starting that cycle.
I have only ever done fresh transfers - no FETs - so, yes, I took my supplements when doing a full stim cycle.
Re: NK cells and proof.
It will be nigh on impossible to obtain proof that NK cells are responsible for disallowing embryo implantation. I think a strong correlation will be the best they'll ever manage - if that!
But it is not unreasonable to suppose that for some people their immune systems will recognise the embryo as foreign and fight it. Because of the sperm's contribution to the embryo, it ought to be easier to raise an immune response against an embryo than it is to develop an autoimmune disease, and autoimmune diseases aren't exactly unheard of.
The prednisone/clexane or similar strategies will dampen the response of many different types of immune cells, and also limit the damage caused by inflammation (leading to blood clots) resulting from wayward immune cells having a little taste of the early embryo.
NK cells seem to be the "flavour of the month" as being the immune cell culprit because they are naturally present in greater numbers in the uterus than many other immune cells, and are increased further in number at the time implantation is due. But with the immune system, number isn't always everything, so it's possible (if immune-mediated rejection is a factor) that it's a less-prevalent cell that is actually the one responsible for making trouble.
Re: Freeze-all cycles.
From my position I wouldn't stress about aiming for freeze-alls. We have never had any embryos suitable for freezing.
Even all the embryos we transferred wouldn't have made the grade for freezing, which might be why most of our transfers didn't show any sign of attempting implantation. But even for the cycle that worked all our embies were still only morulas on day 5, and those that they left in the lab to grow to day 6 only got as far as poor quality early blasts.
Like everything else IVF, it's just a matter of doing the best you can and not doing anything you might regret later. So for our situation we always gave the best 1 or 2 embies a chance in my uterus rather than chucking them away as being poor quality because they weren't freezeworthy.
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27-07-2012 14:58 #899Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
Thank you everyone for the warm welcome!
Zakmick my FS has me on Zinc x2, CoQ10 x2, folic acid, baby aspirin, fish oil, vitamin e, Metformin & DHEA. Hubby is on Aloe Vera juice, 1/2 clomid a day as well as the zinc and folic acid. When I stimm I'm also on 10mg Predisone, clexane and something else (the name escapes me right now). Im not sure hpw or if it is all helping but I've only done one cycle with this FS and last EPU I got 22 eggs (no OHSS!!). My average is ten but they were all still crap quailty and only 12 could be injected. I'm hoping out next (and last with my eggs) cycle will show some results with the cocoction we are on.
Hope that helps!
The Following User Says Thank You to Abubby For This Useful Post:
27-07-2012 15:23 #900
Clem I don't want to sound rude but I don't understand the stimulation of your uterus theory since you have no problems getting pg, i have read the theory but I'm no doctor though. Have you thought of a second opinion?
I had one FS who believed in nk cells and one who thought it was a waste if time. The one who believed in immune problems has a patient who had 7 miscarriages before being treated with immune problems and is now over 12 weeks.
I wish you well and hope your ok
Last edited by kmvw; 27-07-2012 at 15:25.
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