Hi everyone. Yes I have been a little bit quiet of late, but have still been reading along with you all.
We don't have any answers yet for what's gone wrong. On ET day FS didn't give an answer. The following day the embryologist refused to speculate. The counsellor doesn't know much about IVF nitty gritty, but even she knew that d5 should mean blasts. The FN that phone on Fri had nothing useful to contribute. Haven't made the post-cycle appt yet, I think they frown on you attending that appt before the BFN BT had been done, because they don't look too pleased when I book the appt on my way out from BT before getting the result back.
So, in the absence of any answers I'm struggling with a few questions.
Since IVFA, QFG, MIVF have a sort-of merger, can we get Wazza to look over our file to see if he can make any suggestions.
Should we switch to Wazza. If yes, when.
Should we switch to SIVF. If yes, when.
Should we try again with my eggs.
Should we wait 3 months and try melatonin (what dose), royal jelly, more CoQ10, more grape seed, more fish oil, more VitBs, Sharkeys, anything else.
Should we go double donor with my brother and DHs sister (we have tentative agreement from both of them).
Should we give up and come to terms with forever being childless.
Should I start on antidepressants just to get through another cycle.
Should I do another cycle if I think I need antidepressants just to get through it.
Can we karyotype 1 or more eggs.
Should we stim to get more than one egg to karyotype.
Should we put eggs for testing under PolScope before karyotype, or use some for visualising spindle with a colorimetric technique.
Should we put eggs through the chip IVFA (MIVF) use for microarray PGD.
Should we PGD embryos.
What's the Westmead lab's proportion of mature eggs proceeding to d5 blast compared with IVFA average.
What's the Westmead lab's proportion of ICSIed eggs proceeding to (a) fert, (b) d5 blast, (c) BFP, compared with IVFA average.
Why do our embies all stop.
Failing an answer to that, what are 5 plausible reasons for our pattern of growth arrest and what are the ways to check and/or work around or overcome those 5 reasons.
Should we try d1 ZIFT - with how many embies each time.
Should they add my blood serum or fallopian fluid to the culture medium.
Do they use pyruvate+glucose- medium until 8 cell and then pyruvate+/-glucose+ medium until blast.
Do/can they test used culture medium to draw inferences about embryonic growth/metabolic patterns.
Should we sort out my IVF-related stress before booking the debrief appt, or should we proceed pretending everything's fine.
Should we do another cycle if I don't believe it will work.
Can we not have the nurse who says you shouldn't be doing IVF if you don't think it will work.
Should we change to a different IVFA clinic.
Should they recheck thawed donor sperm quality including use of high-mag without taking the sperm out of our allocation.
Should we do high-mag the next time we use this sperm.
So, in summary: I'm not happy about stopping IVF, I'm not happy about continuing IVF, I'm generally not happy and haven't made it through one day since ET without crying.
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Results 51 to 60 of 67
27-07-2011 10:00 #51
27-07-2011 11:38 #52Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
Felicita - oh your post made me feel so frustrated & helpless - I wish I could help in some way This journey is so hard even with all the answers & u have so many unanswered questions!
I'd be super careful abt mixing antidepressants & ivf. Perhaps something to discuss with counsellor & maybe get some regular counseling appointments in the diary to manage the stress & emotions as u start to receive the medical information.
Maybe a break isn't a bad thing (just one mth away from the entire thing to get yourself de-stressed). I hated the idea of a break until I was forced to have one & realised how much I needed to poke my head out of the ivf sand occassionally as I was missing out on some really nice non baby stuff
Pls don't give up - your post shows how much you want this (I'm sure many would have quit by now with a list that long & daunting). GL x
27-07-2011 16:11 #53
Felicita- You are so knowledgable about all this IVF stuff, it is well beyond me to give you advice on a lot of the questions you've asked above. Is there someone at your clinic you can talk to in detail about this (and who you respect)? An embryologist or FS? Can your FS take your case to the other FS's at your clinic for their opinions? Has anyone given you a possible reason for your failure to get blasts, or are they just telling you it's a numbers game? Are you happy overall with your FS/clinic or would you feel more comfortable seeking your own 2nd (or 3rd) opinion (even if you don't plan on changing doctors)?
You obviously aren't ready to give up. PGD is probably a good option to consider for next cycle: can you do the 'advanced embryo selection' thing they have introduced at MIVF (is that what you're talking about above?). I know it's not cheap... almost the out of pocket cost for a full cycle but it might give you the information you want. ZIFT sounds fairly drastic: does it give any better results compared with just doing an early transfer? I guess it's hard to tell with the low numbers of people who do it.
I hope you and your FS can work out a plan for your next cycle that you're comfortable with...
27-07-2011 16:33 #54Senior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
Felicita- I have no words for you hon, i feel totally hopeless to answer any of your questions and my heart breaks as i would love to have at least one answer for you as you are the most giving, warm & generous person i know!!!!!!!!!! somehow it will show you were you have to be and what you need to do to understand where you want to be !!
27-07-2011 17:33 #55
The IVF counsellor phoned me today. Among the chat she said I can take antidepressants with IVF, and wouldn't be the first to do so. She said GP is who I have to talk to about arranging it. So in anticipation of cycling again I've now got an appt next week to try out a new GP (my fave one moved away sometime between March 2010 and March 2011).
The counsellor's suggestions from my appointment last week didn't really help. Whenever I finish a task that successfully distracted me the first thought that pops unbidden into my head is, that was a good distraction from how depressed you are.
She also suggested music might be a useful distraction, but I've discovered a couple of times that when listening to the radio while driving a stealth cry will sneak up on me. It was a bit Amy Pond/Dr Who creepy the first time it happened. I've considered practising/learning violin as a concentration intensive musical activity, but I might scare the kiddies at the child care centre next door if I do that. If I wait until they close at night then the neighbours and their dogs on the other side will cop it and they're too nice to be put through that.
The clinic (or my FS) insists on a non-drug cycle in between stims anyway, i.e. a month off.
But, I've only cried one and a half times today, and not at all while writing this post, so things seem to be getting better.
Will make a post-cycle appt on Friday to see my FS sometime in the next couple of weeks. Will make sure we book a long appt, because we made him run really late with our questions two cycles ago.
The reason we were given for failing to make blasts in our first 4 cycles was super-dodgy sperm. For 3 out of the 4 cycles they couldn't really find enough sperm to ICSI all the eggs, so some got less-than-pretty sperm. That's why I don't understand why it's still the same result with IVFA-supplied donor sperm.
I'm quite happy with how my FS has handled my care. Now that I suspect egg quality (even though FS and embryologist have said they don't) the first thing I would expect him to do would be prescribe DHEA. But he did that back in January when we had the sperm we knew were dodgy and he figured it might help egg/embryo quality enough to help them over the line. He still has me on it.
We asked about PGD before cycle 4. FS said that since we haven't been faced with a choice of embies to transfer then PGD wouldn't be worth the expense - that it was better to just transfer the one or two we have and wait the couple of weeks.
Since we don't have a candidate faulty gene(s) to look for (because embryologist refused to speculate on dose-dependent genes like SOX2 or on maternally imprinted genes), I meant the advanced embryo selection process.
My sister's FS told her that some ppl's embryos just don't like laboratory culture conditions, so that's why d1 transfer is on the list of questions. Embryos up to 8cell like pyruvate as their carbon/energy source, while morulas and blasts like to use glucose. Fallopian tube environment provides pyruvate, while uterine environment provides glucose. Adding glucose to early embryos can reduces the number that successfully grow, so that's why ZIFT for the early transfer is on the list of questions.
27-07-2011 18:20 #56
Felicita- sounds like you've really thought it all through. I'm glad to hear that your FS is accommodating and makes time for your questions. Was also interested to hear that you can actually use anti-depressants while doing ivf because it's something I'd considered looking into. Your paragraph about taking up the violin made me smile my cats used to love it when I played as a teenager; don't think my family were so excited by the noise!!
Dani- hope intralipid wasn't too boring, I hear it takes a few hours? Does it cost a lot extra?
28-07-2011 22:27 #57Senior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
Vesper- it cost 150.00 (cash only) for procedure (meaning to put the drip in)and 24.00 for the intralipid.
29-07-2011 08:10 #58
Danii- I thought you were going to say thousands or something. That seems quite cheap compared with everything else! Excuse my ignorance, but does it mean you don't need to eat much that day?
Update from clinic yesterday was that we had 9 still going, so transfer is still on for tomorrow. I wish we could transfer two (if we get them) but ourselves and FS are worried about risk of one balanced and one unbalanced baby if we got twinnies...
29-07-2011 17:15 #59Senior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
Vesper- that is such fantastic news!!!! I'm over the moon for you, good luck with the transfer tomorrow i will be thinking of you YA YA
Nope i normally have breakfast and something little for tea that night it is so calorie rich!!! No it is cheap just time consuming thats about it!!!!
02-08-2011 21:52 #60Senior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
Vesper- how did you go?
ATM- transfer Friday ya Ya not so Ya for tww thou......
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