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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    TNtDad, I would like to just go back to your "lifestyle choices" point.
    For the sake of argument, lets say that homosexuality is indeed a life style choice, that you can decide who it is you fall inlove with and would like to procreate with.
    Going with that line of thinking, you have chosen to fall inlove, in a relationship that cannot naturally produce children. Therefore, by your own lifestyle choice, you should not be able to access donor eggs/sperm(whatever it is you may require). Simply because you have a penis and your wife has a vagina and uterus, you are still unable to produce and bear children on your own. It is a life style choice to remain in this relationship.
    Spot on. Sooooooooo spot on.

  2. #52
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    I am not denying them ivf or the chance to have a baby but access to the donor registry that's all

  3. #53
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    Veritas is offline Diversity has value.... How boring would the world be if everyone was just like you...
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    I'm sorry but I don't understand your reasoning, other than plain discrimination.... A medically infertile heterosexual couple requiring sperm and a socially infertile homosexual female couple both require the same biological matter to acheive pregnancy, what makes one more worthy of access to the registry than the other purely because they fit the heterosexual norm???

    Reinforcing discrimination on the basis of sexuality is not going to fix the problem of a shortage of donors.....

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    Veritas of course its discrimination..... and he is proud of it and does not care that the world has moved on and that some people have equal rights in this current modern living world. Its a narcissistic view of self grandeur.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNTDAD View Post
    I am not denying them ivf or the chance to have a baby but access to the donor registry that's all
    But why? They are as infertile as you and your wife - neither can get pregnant without a donor. Why are you so much more deserving than any other couple?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkymcg View Post
    But why? They are as infertile as you and your wife - neither can get pregnant without a donor. Why are you so much more deserving than any other couple?


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    Ive had the sh*test day of my life today and probably shouldnt post, but as usual I have no self-restraint..

    I think I "get" TNTs arguement. Im assuming that he is referring to actual physical issues in producing your own sperm (or egg? Does your opinion extend to gay men requiring eggs?) rather than ability to access them because of 'lifestyle'.
    While I dont agree, I do see his point.

    However, personally, NO ONE should be denied gametes (excluding perverts and the like). No one. Id happily donate my eggs to a lesbian couple, a gay couple, a single woman or man, or your 'socially acceptable' hetero couple.
    I could not imagine looking someone in the eye and telling them that I deserve sperm and they dont because I made the 'choice' to be hetero and enter a relationship with a man, and they chose a same sex partner.
    Its beyond selfish! It really p*sses me off to read this.
    Im in the same position as you, we need donor sperm. Im dying a little more inside every single day that passes while we wait.
    Yet I have never once thought to limit the use of donor gametes.

    Leeee (not sure how many eeees ) reading your last post brought tears to my eyes... If I had the hand of God Id place a baby right in your arms right now. I feel your ache through my tiny phone.. How anyone could want to deny you blows me away. Not only do you feel the soul destroying desire for a baby that is so elusive, and the fact that you probably cop enough sh*t from idiotic strangers about being in a same sex relationship, now you have to read this....... bullcrap!!!!!

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  9. #58
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    Ok, I have tried and tried to understand this and as far as I can tell it just comes down to bigotry. Many many of us here know the heartache of infertility as our stories (or signatures) attest. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would wish that on someone else. It's heartbreaking whether you're male, female, straight, gay. There is always the argument that "I'm entitled to my opinion" (which brings to mind the old adage 'opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one') but I'm happy to say that we actually don't just grant people carte blanche to have an express their opinions when they are hateful. In fact we have laws against bigotry and hate speech. Our governments are moving (ever so slowly) to ensure equality regardless of sexual orientation and to gay and lesbian people are entitled to equality across the board - and this thankfully includes donor eggs and sperm. Often the pain of TTC can cause us to lash out at others but we must think before we speak. Before the US civil rights movement many people had a similar view about African Americans as TNTDad has about Lesbians and ivf - "We're not denying them an education, just not with us. We're not denying them transport but they have to sit at the back of the bus. We're not denying a bathroom, but not the one we use". Now we have "I'm not denying them IVF, just the sperm they need". At it's absolute best this sentiment is unpleasant. This bitterness becomes more surprising when you note that TNTdad is about to become an actual father thanks to a sperm donation and yet wants to deny others that joy. It's nonsensical. We need more donors not less users. We need more understanding not more restrictions. We need more people to stand up and say "bigotry is not ok". Surely we all want our children (if we're lucky enough to have them) to grow up in a world of kindness and equality instead of selfishness and bigotry.

    My wish is that all of you who are trying to conceive get that baby that your heart desires and I hope that you'll raise them to be accepting rather than restricting.

    (By the way I am not a lesbian nor will I be using donor anything)

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    Gandalf (28-04-2011),lilypily (29-04-2011),Veritas (28-04-2011)

  11. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by RunningWithScissors View Post
    Ive had the sh*test day of my life today and probably shouldnt post, but as usual I have no self-restraint..

    I think I "get" TNTs arguement. Im assuming that he is referring to actual physical issues in producing your own sperm (or egg? Does your opinion extend to gay men requiring eggs?) rather than ability to access them because of 'lifestyle'.
    While I dont agree, I do see his point.

    However, personally, NO ONE should be denied gametes (excluding perverts and the like). No one. Id happily donate my eggs to a lesbian couple, a gay couple, a single woman or man, or your 'socially acceptable' hetero couple.
    I could not imagine looking someone in the eye and telling them that I deserve sperm and they dont because I made the 'choice' to be hetero and enter a relationship with a man, and they chose a same sex partner.
    Its beyond selfish! It really p*sses me off to read this.
    Im in the same position as you, we need donor sperm. Im dying a little more inside every single day that passes while we wait.
    Yet I have never once thought to limit the use of donor gametes.

    Leeee (not sure how many eeees ) reading your last post brought tears to my eyes... If I had the hand of God Id place a baby right in your arms right now. I feel your ache through my tiny phone.. How anyone could want to deny you blows me away. Not only do you feel the soul destroying desire for a baby that is so elusive, and the fact that you probably cop enough sh*t from idiotic strangers about being in a same sex relationship, now you have to read this....... bullcrap!!!!!

    I can kind of understand your explanation on TNTdad's stand point, however, the logic behind it is still the same. His base argument for denying homosexuals the basic human right to have children is that homosexuality is a life choice, it just so happens that the people have chosen to try and reproduce with another that does not have the working parts needed to naturally concieve a baby. Just as TNTDad and his wife have.

    So, if we take sexuality and gender out of the equation, this is what it looks like.

    Person A loves Person B. They are unable to reproduce due to a life style choice.

    Person C loves Person D. They are unable to reproduce due to a life style choice.

    Can you tell me which couple is which?
    This is working off of TNTDad's assumption that homosexuality is a life style choice.
    If it is then staying in a relationship where being unable to concieve naturally, for whatever reason, be it infertility issues or sexual preference, is your own life style choice, therefore BOTH lots of people should not be able to use the donor list.


    Edit: Apologies, I'll leave it in, however, I do not believe it is a basic human right to have children. I firmly believe children are a privledge that should not ever, under any circumstances, be taken for granted.
    Last edited by Jennaisme; 28-04-2011 at 21:59.

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  13. #60
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    Coming from a completely outside perspective, the factors I see influencing the shortage include the fear of being looked for in eighteen years, the concern about whether the parents will care for thhe child, how the child will feel being a child of donor eggs or sperm, and also, the possibility (hopefully remote) of our kids meeting and falling in love. Actually that may not be that remote, our town clinic has advertised for spm donors many times in the local paper, so they are clearly going to be giving any sperm to local couples. In a town of less than 100,000 it is not out of the realm of possibility that our kids and the other bio kid could meet up in a few years... It is a worry. I would never donate due to strong genetic cancer risk, but have mentioned it to DH many times. his main concern is that he couldn't just forget about the children that were made, that he adores his own kids, and cannot imagine others being around who aren't in his life. I don't know how to get men over that concern to encourage more donations...


 

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