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Why are atheists obsessed with God?

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  • #61
    I'm not saying Christians have a monopoly on philanthropy. Nor am I into blowing our trumpet. But to say that Christianity is the cause of what he proposes...

    In this case I think my response to MN was a fair response, albeit a bit more emotional than usual.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by thebas2560 View Post
      Nor am I into blowing our trumpet.
      Oh, that's ok then, I had previously mistaken you for an evangelist! Silly me!

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Duchessa View Post
        Oh, that's ok then, I had previously mistaken you for an evangelist! Silly me!
        What I mean is boasting. I wouldn't 'blow our trumpet' arbitrarily. I'd see this as an exception.

        If someone close to you regularly contributed to charity but kept it to themselves, and then someone came along and accused them of greed and extortion, that which you knew not to be true, you'd defend them and probably show the opposite by pointing to their philanthropy. This would emphasise the incorrectness of the accusation.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by becca74 View Post
          If you dont believe,why do you ask believers questions?

          If God doesnt exist, why do you ask so many questions about God's existence?

          Why is the topic of God always a hot one to atheists?

          Just curious....
          I couldn't care less if there is or isn't a god and I don't ask questions because of that.

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          • #65
            I think that several posts have gone off topic here. I'd encourage you to start a new thread.

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            • #66
              oops yep, I agree, i was posting when you wrote this misskitty.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by thebas2560 View Post
                oops yep, I agree, i was posting when you wrote this misskitty.
                On yer way then bas

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                • #68
                  TL:

                  Jesus spoke of stony ground; I carry a hoe.

                  Big changes don't come from the top down, they drift up from the grassroots, from people like you and me being exposed to a new perspective on things, and realising that the answers they've relied on all their lives don't always make sense. For every person that takes just a slightly more philosophical attitude to a given issue, that's one little bit more wiggle room for large-scale social change to occur.

                  I just want to raise awareness for the fact that the basis these things can and should be questioned. Hell, all ideas should, but most especially the ones that hold people's lives in the balance.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by thebas2560 View Post
                    *red rag*

                    --while women are denied reproductive choice

                    * because this results in children being starved/killed, cut (they are torn limb to limb or burnt by acid) and denied their basic human right to live. Oh and segregated? Black American babies are the most aborted race in the world. Whose standing up for them??
                    You mean the millions of children, teenagers and adults who are denied access to adequate sex education and denied access to adequate contraception (including emergency contraception in the case of rape), thus *leading to* half the abortions that happen?

                    You mean the children starving to death slowly, because there are just too many mouths to feed?

                    You mean the girls dying of AIDS across Africa, because in the absence of contraception or education, people resort to the charming belief that sex with a virgin will cure you? You mean their children, born into HIV with no hope in hell?

                    --while science and medicine are held back

                    * because I don't want to produce human beings who are soley used to be destroyed and used for spare parts. They will be killed, cut, denied medical intervention and denied their basic human right to live. Nazi Germany experimented on human beings to further medical science. (I don't care about that ridicululous rule that ends the argument at the mention of Nazis). I have no problem saying NO to that! If it takes 'faith-based' laws to be the only thing that sees through these obvious atrocities then so be it. If for some unspoken reason an atheistic ethical system cannot see why this is wrong then so be it. If the only people that will stand up for what is right are Christians, then I will vote for them to stop it.
                    Hi. We're talking about stem cell lines from discarded embryos. Ones that are on their way down the drain anyway. So instead of saving thousands of lives, a couple of grams more sewage is created.

                    Yay.

                    Or maybe you're speaking of therapeutic cloning: the patient's own cells, grown for a few days, then harvested. I don't know how to break this to you, but over half of all fertilised eggs either fail to implant, or naturally detach / die within that timeframe anyway.

                    [text removed by moderator]

                    So if people choose to find the silver lining, and actually save lives, what the hell right has anyone to complain?
                    You wanna blame all of societys woes on Christians (or religion to the exception of atheism)?
                    No, just the woes that it actually causes. That's more than enough.

                    Are you kidding me? How precious are the minute moments that these pre-born children get before they are destroyed because of someone elses choice or longing for scientific advancement at any cost? How precious are they? You don't believe in the death sentence under any circumstances? What about this circumstance?
                    Ask your God. He kills off half of them himself.

                    And no, for the record I don't count a tiny cluster of cells to be a human being. Masturbation is not murder, nor is menstruation. As I see it, it's a sliding scale with precisely zero moral weight for a newly fertilised egg, and full-human weight for a newborn. Inbetween, there are no lines - but I'll be damned if I'll let a living, breathing woman die (or have her life destroyed) for fewer cells than are scraped off your cheek when you eat a piece of toast.

                    This is not funny or trivial to me in the slightest. Is this a game, a hobby or a righteous crusade MN?!
                    Same here. I care about people. We differ on the definition, but don't try and take me on on those grounds.

                    Just because I don't value the things you find important, doesn't mean there's nothing I value.

                    (I personally get incredibly sick of people making that assumption - but that's a discussion for another time)
                    Last edited by tickle; 20-02-2007, 06:48. Reason: inappropriate

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                    • #70
                      I'm a little hot under the collar right now so I think the smart thing to do is take a break, have a think and give you a better answer tomorrow if that's ok. I've got some thoughts but I'll think them though and respond in a better frame of mind.

                      And I never said you don't have values. You're hearing the typical 'Atheists have no morals' line when I'm not saying that all about you. Just thought I should clear that up now.

                      Let's take a breather hey?

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                      • #71
                        Getting back to the OP's question - I dont see anything wrong with atheists asking people why they believe. If I want to know something about Christianity, I'll ask a Christian. If they genuinely want to know about peoples beliefs I say ask. Some people feel threatened and defensive if their religion is questioned, but if you are comfortable enough in your belief this shouldnt bother you. Believing in God is a totally strange and alien concept to atheists & if I were of that belief I would be asking a hell of a lot of questions too.

                        Ill just add however, there is a difference between genuinely wanting to understand others beliefs and trying to stir people up

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                        • #72
                          NP thebas

                          Not so much the 'no morals without God' line as this one - and it's not one I'm specifically pinning to you, FWIW. It's pretty much endemic.

                          P1: You denigrate something I value greatly.
                          P2: This causes great consternation
                          C: Therefore, you speak only to cause consternation, and you value nothing at all.

                          It comes with the territory... but man, it gets demoralising after a while.

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                          • #73
                            I thought this was a rather cute interpretation, which I am sure will be shot down, hated, debated(all in good fun tho!) , but I wanted to share it to get feedback......i'm merely curious on your take....

                            from: http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=147754



                            The Atheist

                            The atheist, too, has a god, and it is himself.

                            The idolater at least understands there is something greater than him, something beyond the grasp of his physical senses, some external forces to which he is subject.

                            But for the atheist, all the universe is defined by his own understanding, all ethics are subject to his approval and even he himself is an artifact of his own mind. He is a self-made man, for he creates his own universe and squeezes himself inside it
                            So, If a person's God = the ultimate Authority to whom a person answers to, then I suppose there is some truth in the above statement?

                            could this be why SOME atheists are obsessed with God, as it is actually more an obsession over trying to figure out why/who/what/which (etc) authority other people are answering to?

                            To the atheists out there....who/what is the 'ultimate authority' in your life?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by becca74 View Post
                              I thought this was a rather cute interpretation, which I am sure will be shot down, hated, debated(all in good fun tho!) , but I wanted to share it to get feedback......i'm merely curious on your take....

                              from: http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=147754



                              So, If a person's God = the ultimate Authority to whom a person answers to, then I suppose there is some truth in the above statement?

                              could this be why SOME atheists are obsessed with God, as it is actually more an obsession over trying to figure out why/who/what/which (etc) authority other people are answering to?

                              To the atheists out there....who/what is the 'ultimate authority' in your life?




                              Love it Becca !!!!

                              I think this is true in many circumstances, not in all, but in many !

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Just in response to the idea of atheist's morals, here is another cute blurb I found at one of my favourite sites: http://www.chabad.org/therebbe/article.asp?AID=64038


                                Moral Outrage


                                The following is a freely-translated excerpt from a letter by the Rebbe to a young woman who wrote to him with several questions regarding faith and religion, and prefaced her letter with the statement, "I do not believe in G-d, having found no convincing proof of His existence." In his reply, the Rebbe discusses, at some length, the logical and moral necessity for belief in G-d, and addresses her questions, which included the protestation, "Where was G-d during the Holocaust?" He then adds:


                                I have written all of the above in reply to your letter. In truth, however, not only do I not believe you when you say that you do not believe in G-d (G-d forbid), but it is also clear to me that you do not believe so either.
                                My proof of this is that on every occasion that you witness injustice in your surroundings, or when you think of the Holocaust perpetrated by Hitler (may his name be blotted out), as you mention in your letter, you are outraged. But if it were the case that the world has no Ruler and Planner, why should it surprise you that there transpire unjust things, and that whoever is bigger and more powerful than his fellow swallows him alive?


                                This applies not only to events on the scale of the Holocaust, but to the routine flow of our daily lives, in which every time we perceive something that is wrong and unjust, this disturbs our tranquillity, since we are convinced that things should not be this way. But why shouldn't they? The physical substance of the universe is not moral, and neither are the plants and animals... Obviously, our outrage over the injustice we see derives from something higher than the physical reality--higher, even, than man. This "something" exists within every human heart and is the source of the conviction, shared by every human being, that there is right and wrong, and that the world ought to conform to what is right. Thus, when we witness a wrong, we immediately seek an explanation: Why is it so? What has caused something to be other than what it ought to be?


                                From a letter by the Rebbe dated Iyar 14, 5723 (May 8, 1963)1
                                So, repeating what the Rebbe asked, I would like to ask the atheists here:

                                But if it were the case that the world has no Ruler and Planner, why should it surprise you that there transpire unjust things, and that whoever is bigger and more powerful than his fellow swallows him alive?

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