Anyone with gifted or talented?

[Ys_Woman]

I feel sick even revealing this but keeping it all bottled up inside is stressing me out.
Last year when dd#2 started school the teacher pulled me to one side and gave me an article on gifted children. She suggested we put dd up but as her brother is only a year older and in the year above hers I didn't think it was a good idea, plus the fact that she is totally happy being with her peers.
There are gifted and talented programs at the schools in the ritzy part of town, about half an hour's drive away, but as hubby takes the car to work I would have to bus dd there and back..and with a 4mth old in tow and a 7yr old to get to his own school - no can do.
My stomach hurts thinking about what to do with her. I want to give her opportunities but don't want to be pushy. She loves school and her friends and I wouldn't like to make it a chore for her.
Is anyone else dealing with this and can share ideas or their experience?

Amy

[OJandMe]

Could you get her involved in something extra curricular like Kumon or a drama program? They are excellent for G & T students.

And do you know what areas she's G & T in? (as G & T students aren't always ahead in 'everything' but in specific areas) then you can encourage those.

Good luck

[Ys_Woman]

Thank you so much for replying. I didn't post lightly..I keep this a secret from everyone around us because it scares the living daylights out of me.
Drama is a good one for her and I will find out what there is close to home. She enjoys acting and I think it could be a good outlet for her.
We haven't had formalized testing done yet as the child psych we saw last year on the teacher's recommendation said she wouldn't do it unless we needed the scores to get dd into a g&t program with the private schools across town. It costs around $1000 for testing and apparently needs to be redone after the child hits 8yrs as the testing for younger kids can only test to that age.
The psych found that she is elevated in both English and maths. She suggested we move to the ritzy suburbs so that dd would be around peers who would understand her. Financially that is not an option for us.
The deputy principal used to take dd out of class for three lessons a week and work with her personally. Our school doesn't have a g&t program but there are three kids who desperately need one so that is the best they could come up with. This year the deputy principal cannot do it though and although the teacher gives her advanced work to do, even she is stressing about what to do with dd.
We take her to the science museum, national gallery, national library, school chess club, and later this year she will start clarinet lessons because she is begging us. She also begged for workbooks in the year above hers and completes those at home. They are very easy for her though but I want to ensure she can articulate the processes she is using before moving her to the next year level as she wants.
Might I stress that we don't 'teach' her. We make things available when she asks but we just want her to be happy and have a normal six year old experience.
Sorry..I could rave on forever but I should go to bed. I am so thankful for your insight though.

Amy

[megaminz]

hi I thought i should reply even though I am not sure what the answer is for you.

I was/is a g&t. I got put up three years when I was about 6 and the teacher used to be mean to me (stand me in front of class and rip my books up in front of everyone for messy handwriting) so i asked my mum to go back down even though i was doing better than everyone else in the class so academically I was coping.

The only problem was that for the rest of my school years I was so bored and did things in the level i was in so easily that i never put any effort in because I didnt need to. I find it still effects me today because I never had to focus and work hard at stuff I often dont unless I really get on a good roll.

I dont know what the choices are around you but have you contacted your local MENSA for help? They may have ideas or even programs for littlies that they could suggest to you. I didnt join til I was older so I dont know what the deal is for little ones.

SOrry that probably wasnt much help but I feel for you and your little girl cause in a different way its similar to what I went through and you were probably like my mum wondering what on earth to do about it.

[Ys_Woman]

Gee hon, that would have been so demoralizing. I am guessing the teacher wasn't a fan of 'bright little upstarts' (as I imagine she would have seen it). As to your handwriting..good gravy.. the development of fine motor skills gives a child the ability to write neatly and you would have been so far behind the older grade 3's due to that. Hope you go back to your school reunion and slap that teacher..lol.
DD could easily go up three grades to work at her level, however..and here is the long bit of the story..once bitten, twice shy as the saying goes. Eldest dd was also gifted, not even close to what dd#2 exhibits, but gifted nonetheless. She started school early and it became apparent over time that being one year younger made a huge difference. She was not accepted into play situations by the older kids because her social development was immature to theirs, regardless of how mature she was in other areas. By the time she got to high school she was suddenly a little girl trying to fit in with older more street smart kids..so she did whatever was necessary to fit in socially, working hard to exceed anything her classmates were doing..ie in terms of sexual experimentation, drugs...all the worst stuff. She just wanted to be accepted.

So back to dd#2 who is an immature 6yr old..who runs around like a cat pretending to scratch people and making all the appropriate noises. She is popular to all age brackets at the school and loves nothing more than being with her classmates, as exhibited when they moved her to a higher grade for part of the day and she mourned what her classmates were doing at that time. I can see though that the bloom is somewhat coming off the rose in the past six months as she realizes her peers don't think in the way she does and it frustrates her somewhat.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't with these kids. If I put her up she could experience the same problems as first dd. If I don't let them stretch her she will experience what you did..she will never learn to require more of herself.
I rang Mensa last year and left a message on their answering machine but they never got back to me..so maybe I need to be a bit more proactive in seeking out help with either a g&t organization or persevere with Mensa. I have been extremely hesitant to enter that realm though..perhaps because I worry what it will all mean if I let it out.
That really is the scariest part. I don't want the focus on her to be heavily on the intellectual because on a bad day if she didn't perform people would mock and say: "I thought she was supposed to be gifted!".
Does any of that resonate with you?
Thank you for post..it has given me much food for though.
Have you given any consideration to what you would do with your own child under the same circumstances?

Amy

[megaminz]

ah you poor thing with DD1. It would be so much harder these days cause kids are so much more advanced socially (sex drugs and rock and roll type thing) that I was and they are so much more nastier, I worry how to even protect my kids from that when they are of the age let alone a wee dot that is younger than them.

I can still see that teacher, still see the classroom, the noticeboard where i was standing EVERYTHING. she is probably dead now anyway she was old even then!!

yes it does resonate with me. I am the "great white hope" of my family. Everythign I do people naturally assume that I should be in charge or do more or take more on. But at the same time I like my intelligence. The more people expect of me the less I do in some ways I think. But I dont think they ever doubt I am smart...just lazy

I think if you get no joy from the Mensa folks and the like perhaps encourage her to write stories, short stories long ones...I wrote a book when I was 13, never really took it far but I have it in em.

THats the problem I think with us is that we are good at so much we have trouble picking "one' thing to do.

I can understand her getting frustrated with people I was like that especially at high school cause i just thought people were so STUPID and immature. As a result I got on really well with my teachers cause I got things they talked about.

But you sound like you are doing well, trying to keep her normal as so far as letting her enjoy what she wants. I guess thats the best thing too, foster her interests..maybe get her started on languages cause its something you could learn together if you havent already cause someone with her abilities will pick them up quick and my GOODness the possibilities when she is older...she could study art in france...work at a diplomatic office in italy...


I am not sure what I will do when I finally have a child and its smart (cause dh is quite smart so good chances) but I hope I can let them take their own path. ALthough I am book smart I have always loved fashion and makeup type things and really wanted to work at this pharmacy when I left school. My parents wanted more of me so went to uni, did a double degree in science and stats, dropped out in last semester bored witless. Now at thirty I work a boring day job but have started my own business as a makeup artist and I reckon I am great at it. I think encourage her to think for herself, make her own decisions where she wants to go. Cause unfortunately she is quite capable earlier than most kids and I found that I got overriden a lot as a child because i was a child only to be proven right which was FRUSTRATING. Like with her clarinet interests thats great cause that will really keep stimulating her maths brain.

oh i could blah blah for hours cause I really feel like I have wasted a lot of my life cause I have been bored and still am... now i am an adult the only thing stopping me going back and doing stuff is having bills and committments and not wanting to be without wages

[sam's mum]

I let DD1 get put up a grade at school and she was up for a couple of years, but we ended up switching schools and correcting her back to her age appropriate class. the school had been putting her up into higher classes again for some of the subjects as well.

the trouble with this is that then you are seen as 'special' by the other kids.

I think that the most important thing is to have the teacher on board. One year DD had a teacher that when she finished her work wouldn't let her do anything else, she had to sit there and wait for everyone else to finish. hmm, I wonder why she was mucking around. I got that sorted out, but the teacher wasn't happy.

since then they have been more careful which teacher they put her with, and she gets given other work to do or she is allowed to read a book once she is finished. She is also given extension work to do in the classroom.

When she was little and we took her to pick colouring books, she would always pick those work books. People thought she was odd because her 'play pack' of things to do when we were out was these work books, but it made her happy.

It will be easier when she is at high school next year because it is more modular, so they have said that they can mix and match her schedule to whatever her abilities are. they already do this with other kids, so she won't stand out. When she has finished the Grade 12 curriculum she can start uni subjects, this will give her credit towards her degree, but no hecs to pay because she is in high school .

I think it is important to listen to the child.

Also, as someone else said, make sure that they do have to push themselves sometimes.

I found this article to be really good reading as well.
http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

[Ky]

Originally Posted by Ys_Woman

it became apparent over time that being one year younger made a huge difference...

Hi Amy ...

My DD is in this situation - she is year two, has just turned 7 a couple of weeks ago and is at the top of her class in all subjects. She has found that little things like losing her teeth a lot later than her peers (nearly all are 8 or turning 8 soon), being a bit shorter (although not the shortest now) and being the "baby" of the class age-wise has made it hard at times to fit in.

She also choses to do extra work outside of school and is fascinated with the human body and anything medical. She can't wait until she turns 8 and can join St Johns Ambulance and would blow you away with what she reads for fun. Her favourite book is a college human anatomy book and she likes nothing better than to read about the lymphatic system ... weird child

I too was recommended to be put up several classes, but my parents asked for me to be kept with my peers. They fostered my interests outside of school, kept my mind active and we spent a heap of time at the local library. I also learnt several musical instruments and my parents required me to do voluntary work. I am glad that they said no, as one of my friends was put up at that time and has ended up really screwed up as she could never compete maturity-wise with her fellow students.

I believe that kids will absorb info, facts and strategy through play and encouraged interest just as easily as if they were placed in a higher grade. I think that children should be allowed to be children - they will learn at their own pace ... no matter what "thier own pace" is!

A teacher friend was over here today and made a comment about how funny it would be if my DS (who is just 5 and has had a total of 6 weeks in kindergarten so far) was put up into my DD's class. She then stated why she thought he should be and I was astonished as I had never seen him as academically gifted. All I knew was that he wasn't struggling and was taking to reading, writing and maths pretty quickly. I quickly told her that we would do the same with him as with DD and keep him with his class - he too is around a year younger than most of the other children in his class.

Fortunately, once children reach year 5 at our school, they are put into "streamed" classes and an extension program is available. I will just have to keep fostering my children's interests until then ...

A friend has her two children in Kumon and they are really going ahead ... we are unable to afford to send our children there though.

[bubbleyblossom]

I was offered a place in an accelarated learning program but didnt take it. When i chose to attend a different high school they offered for me to go staright to year 8. After thinking long and hard, Mum and I decided that I'd be better off flying through year 7 then maybe struggling through year 8. Im not sure if that helps you at all

[Ys_Woman]

Thank you lovely ladies for your support. I love hearing your stories.
The general consensus seems to be that putting a child in a class with older children is not a good idea. I so agree.
The other thing that has come out of your posts is how important it is to continue to stretch these children in order that they are challenged and not allowed to just skate along easily. I so agree with that one too.
I am beginning to think that if we continue to expose dd to a wide variety of extra curricular activities it could fill the void left by her schooling.
It would seem to me that if my child were at the opposite end of the scale the education department would pull out all stops to supply integration aids and specialised learning systems, but not so for the child who is keen to learn and able to go further than their peers.

Megaminz: You said something that put me in mind of my eldest dd. That you preferred to spend time with the teacher over your peers. DD had a friend (note the singular) but spent most of her time with her grade 5 and 6 teacher (same one for both years). All throughout her schooling life her teachers would complain about her inattention due to ADHD but then rave about the great conversations they had had with her. In high school she began the campaign of dumbing herself down to the point where they believed her. She loved being in the remedial classes because the work was easy, done in a flash and then she could go on with her own stuff. It wasn't until the statewide testing occurred in Year 10 that the teacher's discovered they were being fooled. Her results were exceedingly high.
Be kind to yourself hon. I think most of us in your position have wasted our lives somewhat due to discontent. When it comes easily, or once something is mastered, you bore easily. I am forever looking for something new to pour myself into..currently it appears to be Bubhub..lololol.

Sam's mum: That is awesome about doing uni credits without incurring the HECs debt. I am already looking at high schools and considering having both of my school age kids sit the scholarship exams for the private schools here. Failing that there is a brilliant public high school that caters to bright kids and likely do what your high school does in providing the mix and match schedule.
I tried having dd1 put back to her age corrected class, even had her assessed by a leading light Prof Frank Oberklaide at the RCH in Melbourne, but he and her teachers said no. When we moved to Canberra at the end of 2000 and I was enrolling her for 2001 I begged the principal to keep her back with her peers but got told no..she was far too mature to be with her peers. How frustrating! She went on to those destructive behaviours I mentioned in an earlier post but I feel would not have if she had been with her own age group.
It sounds like your daughter will be well looked after though and won't have to bother feeling 'different' in high school as she may have in primary school. Let's face it, all we want is for our kids to fit in somewhere and feel accepted for who they are.

Elias: Talking about St John's took me back to eldest dd at 2yrs old. We couldn't find her at the caregiver's house one afternoon and she was conspicuously quiet. Found her on a bean bag in the corner of the loungeroom reading a St John's manual. It became her preferred reading for ages afterward.
Wow about your ds! You didn't realise his strengths as giftedness? See I kept it secret from dd2's preschool teacher but they found out when she was discovered writing their names in the sand with a stick. There was talk then about switching her to kindergarten year (prep) but I said no. I felt that whole preschool year was purely for socialisation and learning to take direction..the academic stuff could wait.. much more important to get the social stuff right (IMO).
I love the fact that your school has that streamed idea and those kids who need to be challenged will get it. Our school is about to get a new principal and I will be making an appointment to talk about those issues quick smart. Hopefully we get someone who is on the ball.
We also would struggle to afford Kumon so I am going to take matters into my own hands here at home as ds1 was stretched to three syllable spelling words by his grade one teacher last year but the grade two teacher is letting us down by giving him basic words. I have spoken with him about this but nothing has changed. He also doesn't believe in homework so I cannot see what ds is being taught Funnily enough..'plodding' ds1 needs to be stretched more than dd2. When his spelling,reading and maths shot up to the top of the class last year it did so much for his self-esteem. He has always struggled with the fact that his little sister outstrips him every time. Suddenly he felt he had abilities too and started walking a bit taller. I would hate to see that diminish.

Bubbleyblossom: It sounds like you made a wise choice. Looking back do you feel you did?

I had best end here as I have probably filled a page. The problems I am experiencing with dd2 seems to be a universal problem though and one that needs more attention. Hopefully I can muddle through and get the kids onto the right path.

Hugs to you all,
Amy