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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I'm surprised to be honest people are reeling at the term "institutionalised" used in the context of childcare. It's not an insult. It's a common term. I've heard teachers and educators use it regularly. It's not equating it with prison. But childcare institutions is a very common term.
    Exactly thank you

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candiceo View Post
    Yep i know you got hammered on one of my threads a while ago. Lots of us, myself included, wouldn't choose the journey you have but that's what's great about this country is that you can choose. We have options.

    Stay strong, i was impressed by your ability to stay courteous in the face of hostility.
    Thanks. I dont really understand why people get b!tchy on here when someone has an opinion

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by witherwings View Post
    Sometimes childcare might not be necessary for the child but is necessary for the parents, either because they are working (obviously then it is necessary) or because the mother (or father in my case, as he's the SAHD) need a break. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Think of it as a mental health plan. I know some awesome parents who stay home with their kids 7 days a week and are able to organise amazing activities for them and get out with them every day etc, it also helps if there are siblings. But that's not for everyone.

    From my personal experience, when my boys started childcare (both started at 2yrs & 3 months), I saw an immediate improvement in their social & communication skills. Maybe a lot of it had to do with their ages, but they started engaging with the world around them on a completely different level.



    I so strongly disagree with this statement and I find it bordering on offensive. I don't like to think that we don't do "enough" with them at home, and are bad or lazy parents, and our kids certainly aren't disadvantaged. We do plenty of fun things with them: lots of reading, lots of craft and building things, playing imaginative games, talking A LOT about things and answering questions, singing, dancing, writing, going to parks and museums and holidays/travelling, but by the end of the day, childcare provides opportunities for experiences that we just can't give them at home. Like visiting a fire station, or watching chickens hatch, or learning to engage with certain children who have different personalities and interests to you, on a regular basis.

    There's also the fact that they can't get 100% of mummy and daddy's attention all the time so they need to learn new coping skills that they just can't do at home when mum is always there to give a cuddle.

    On a social level - No matter how much effort you put into getting your kids to interact with other children outside of childcare, it's not the same as actually being in the social environment of childcare, which is the closest thing they will come to being in school.

    That's not to say that if you don't send your kids to childcare, you're doing wrong by them. But certainly there are benefits.

    ETA - my kids both go 3 days a week for 8 hours
    Been away just catching up. Just wanted to say I think you misinterpreted what I was saying about Childcare for disadvantaged children. I wasn't suggesting that people who send their kids to daycare do so because there is anything lacking in the care they get at home. I was thinking about developed countries pushing the early learning agenda as necessary for children based on some studies showing the long term benefits. I've read many critiques on this interpretation of the evidence. Severally disadvantaged children do appear to benefit greatly from Childcare. But if you read some of the articles and papers on getting more kids into formal early learning environments you'd think it was nearly akin to child neglect not to send your kids to daycare. Sorry if my wording made it sound like I was saying something else.

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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I didn't take it that way. Naturally the effects of institutions can be negative and positive depending on what the outcomes are and what parents want.

    I think it's unfortunate people here leap on everything that poster says and every thread she's in becomes about her views and that's about it.

    Who cares if she doesn't want her children institutionalised. I'd imagine a lot of unschoolers feel the same way. Is it that surprising?
    Thanks again

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unschooling4 View Post

    not being respected
    not being heard/listened to
    Not being able to say if anything is wrong
    workers lying
    Not having the freedom to do/play what he wants
    Being forced into routines eg. Being forced to eat when he isnt hungry.
    I read your list (and edited it slightly for effect) and thought (tongue in cheek) "god that sounds like half the jobs I've ever had, daycare really is setting them up for their future".

    I 100% see where you are coming from (even though it doesn't match my own philosophy) and appreciate that a lot of people do not understand the concept of intentionally not getting kids used to the limits and confines of "normal" life.

    For me, I don't see any drama in my kids going to daycare or school as I know that the impact I have (and have had from day 1) will far outweigh some time spent at daycare where everything hasn't been exactly as I would like it.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    I just want to touch on this point, because I see this sentiment a lot.

    Sometimes women return to work because they *choose* to work and they get something intellectual, inspirational or otherwise from their career. It seems that it's considered okay for women to return work if there is a clear financial need, but for women to say 'hey, I'm working because I like it and my job/career is important to me' is somehow still considered less ok by many. Or at least, harder to understand maybe?

    It's taken me three years to just say 'I work because it's meaningful to me'. I could survive financially if I worked part time, but I hated that. But I always felt like I needed a 'reason' that society would accept. I wonder if I'm alone there?

    I know that wasn't your implication, just your comment made me think of this :-)

    Sorry, OT I know, just a thought I had...
    This is an interesting point. I feel like I need to justify why I don't work! And especially if I want to use Childcare. Sometimes I read comments on articles about Childcare and there's a number out there who don't think non working mums should be even allowed to use cc. So I find myself justifying my choice by pointing out the lack of any family / support and needing some time to study and prepare to get back into work... But I pay full fees so what the hell business is it of anyone else's? I need to stop comparing myself to working mums who manage to work and look after kids and house or sahm's who also have no support but still didn't need to use Childcare. My kids, my life...
    I just need to grow some thicker skin methinks 😆

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  9. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    I just want to touch on this point, because I see this sentiment a lot.

    Sometimes women return to work because they *choose* to work and they get something intellectual, inspirational or otherwise from their career. It seems that it's considered okay for women to return work if there is a clear financial need, but for women to say 'hey, I'm working because I like it and my job/career is important to me' is somehow still considered less ok by many. Or at least, harder to understand maybe?

    It's taken me three years to just say 'I work because it's meaningful to me'. I could survive financially if I worked part time, but I hated that. But I always felt like I needed a 'reason' that society would accept. I wonder if I'm alone there?

    I know that wasn't your implication, just your comment made me think of this :-)

    Sorry, OT I know, just a thought I had...
    I love this post @harvs. We probably could survive just on hubby's income and would be doing really well if I only worked 3 days per week. But I love my career and to progress in my current company (which I also love) I needed to work full-time. And that progression is really meaningful to me. It's not so much about the money to me. My sister and manager are the only people IRL who get that because they're both mums who choose to work full time. Anyone else looks at me like I have 3 heads when I try to explain it to them.

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  11. #68
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    This is a really interesting thread. I think it's a valid point that if you are interested in early childhood development you can provide a equal/better educational experience however. .. If your not really in the know or have an interest in teaching young minds i think quality childcare can be beneficial. Someone very close to me is a very loving parent but has no clue. A walk to the park sounds like this: hurry up, I'm not waiting for you, stop touching everything and get a move on NOW!

    Someone who wants to teach doesn't sound like this right? So the child's experience is very different.

    Also, i have seen the term institutionalized thrown around. The word itself by definition is negative but i think what is meant is more like 'use to routine and rules'. I'm a parent who wants my kids to behave by rules. I'm fine with school telling them when to eat, play or learn. I actually find comfort and reward in routines myself and i loved school so I'm placing my beliefs and past experiences onto my kids. My logic isn't really any different from someone who had a traumatic experience choosing to homeschool/unschool.
    Last edited by Candiceo; 10-10-2016 at 12:50.

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  13. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unschooling4 View Post
    Concerns i have for my son in daycare:

    Him not being respected
    Him not being heard/listened to
    Not being able to say if anything is wrong (though as a parent I'd know)
    Daycare workers lying (this has happened ib the past)
    Not having the freedom to do/play what he wants
    Being forced into routines eg forced to take naps when he isnt tired or eat when he isnt hungry.
    They are valid concerns however I should note that they are not really risks that are unique to 'institutions.'

    There are risks that keeping your kids home, and 'uninstitutionalised' do not protect from. For example, kids not being respected (eg being yelled at) can happen in the home. Infact, I would say that risk is greater in the home than an 'institution.'

    Another example of risk in the home that wasn't on your list: a child is 33 times more likely to suffer abuse if a biological mother cohabitats with a man who is not the child's biological father. http://www.drphil.com/advice/parenti...ng-statistics/
    - not always and of course there are some awesome step dads out there. I suppose what I'm saying is that our responsibilities in caring for out kids go way beyond the perceived risks in them being institutionalised - the game plan needs to be bigger than that.

  14. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    I just want to touch on this point, because I see this sentiment a lot.

    Sometimes women return to work because they *choose* to work and they get something intellectual, inspirational or otherwise from their career. It seems that it's considered okay for women to return work if there is a clear financial need, but for women to say 'hey, I'm working because I like it and my job/career is important to me' is somehow still considered less ok by many. Or at least, harder to understand maybe?

    It's taken me three years to just say 'I work because it's meaningful to me'. I could survive financially if I worked part time, but I hated that. But I always felt like I needed a 'reason' that society would accept. I wonder if I'm alone there?

    I know that wasn't your implication, just your comment made me think of this :-)

    Sorry, OT I know, just a thought I had...
    So true, I wish I could like this post X11,000

    I'm choosing to work full time. We could manage without any salary from me or from DH. We wouldn't have to move or change much of our lifestyle.

    But neither of us want to entertain the idea. We'd do 4 days a week maybe, but parent at home : hell no.

    Do we feel any guilt at all? Not one bit.
    I'm actually super incredibly proud of the example I'm setting for my children and the life I offer them.

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