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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I think this is a really well balanced post But I wanted to point out that even jobs you love and study for, have crappy parts to them. I know a few nurses who say they love the job, but they hate the paperwork. It's frustrating, repetitive and takes time from patient care. Likewise in the industry I studied in, the paperwork is insane. Pick any trade or occupation you can think of and I guarantee even people that love their job will say there are bits that are boring or frustrating.

    And in regard to some children not getting what they need from the main****** system. I agree with that, the system, public and private is not infallible. Teachers do try to cater to all different abilities in each subject area but of course it doesn't work for everyone. But having some experience with these types of kids, the answer isn't to remove them even more from main****** society. It's to attempt to better use what resources they have at their disposal and tweek it. These kids need more specialised and targeted assistance, not less, at home with well meaning but untrained parents who are well out of their depth. These kids already are on the fringe of 'normal'. Pushing them further out IMHO isn't the answer, it only seeks to alienate them more and put them further behind.
    Oh I completely agree with you that there are aspects of everyone's job that they probably don't really like or are boring/frustrating. I guess I feel like the balance can often be better if you are in an industry you are passionate about or that is tailored to your strengths. And by that I mean that the boring/frustrating bits are easier to cope with when you are in your preferred industry and also that they play a smaller role than they may at school. And also, as I mentioned I feel that adults often have more tools to deal with these difficult bits than children do.

    I also feel that in an ideal situation that alienating many struggling kids wouldn't be the best option. But this issue is just so complicated and many kids are just not functioning at school despite all the resources that are available (which are limited in many schools). Asking parents to just tolerate the current system while schools/the education department try to tweak it bit by bit is unbearable in some situations.

  2. #122
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    Default How do you feel about Childcare / early learning?

    Quote Originally Posted by sajimum View Post
    Oh I completely agree with you that there are aspects of everyone's job that they probably don't really like or are boring/frustrating. I guess I feel like the balance can often be better if you are in an industry you are passionate about or that is tailored to your strengths. And by that I mean that the boring/frustrating bits are easier to cope with when you are in your preferred industry and also that they play a smaller role than they may at school. And also, as I mentioned I feel that adults often have more tools to deal with these difficult bits than children do.

    I also feel that in an ideal situation that alienating many struggling kids wouldn't be the best option. But this issue is just so complicated and many kids are just not functioning at school despite all the resources that are available (which are limited in many schools). Asking parents to just tolerate the current system while schools/the education department try to tweak it bit by bit is unbearable in some situations.
    Parents also need to take responsibility for their child's medical and other needs.

    We've got kids at school who need too see doctors/specialists but parents don't take them. There are kids who need glasses but parents won't pay for them. We've got kids who need to get to paed appointments. We've got kids who need dental work.

    And...we've even got kids who only need parents to sign on the line to get them some speech or OT sessions but some won't even do that.
    Last edited by BigRedV; 11-10-2016 at 20:38.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Parents also need to take responsibility for their child's medical and other needs.

    We've got kids at school who need too see doctors/specialists but parents don't take them. There are kids who need glasses but parents won't pay for them. We've got kids who need to get to paed appointments. We've got kids who need dental work.

    And...we've even got kids who only need parents to sign on the line to get them some speech or OT seasons but some won't even do that.
    I am sure that there are parents at both ends of the spectrum. The parents I am referring to are engaged and often very well informed about their child's needs. It must be very frustrating as a teacher to see that children need assistance but not be able to get parents on board.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Parents also need to take responsibility for their child's medical and other needs.

    We've got kids at school who need too see doctors/specialists but parents don't take them. There are kids who need glasses but parents won't pay for them. We've got kids who need to get to paed appointments. We've got kids who need dental work.

    And...we've even got kids who only need parents to sign on the line to get them some speech or OT seasons but some won't even do that.
    Genuine question: are the parents not doing some of these things because they are lazy or because the things are costly?

    Your post made me think - if kids are going to school where there are mandatory reporters to look out for them.... And their welfare concerns are still being overlooked.... imagine the welfare concerns that *could* be overlooked if a kid was at home full time with minimal access to adults other than those in their immediate family.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Genuine question: are the parents not doing some of these things because they are lazy or because the things are costly?

    Your post made me think - if kids are going to school where there are mandatory reporters to look out for them.... And their welfare concerns are still being overlooked.... imagine the welfare concerns that *could* be overlooked if a kid was at home full time with minimal access to adults other than those in their immediate family.
    In a low ses area yes, it would sometimes be financial.

    Sometimes people can't get to the service they need.

    Sometimes parents just don't want to admit their child needs help.

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  7. #126
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    Oh, and also, things like neglect where children aren't taken to see a dentist or paed is still mandatory to report but would go to the bottom of the pile every time as it's not putting the child at significant risk of harm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Sometimes parents just don't want to admit their child needs help.
    I have known a few of these, but more in a "How DARE you suggest my child has something wrong". And it's sad because they might just need that little nudge and the parents ego is the only thing standing in the way of that.

  9. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I think this is a really well balanced post But I wanted to point out that even jobs you love and study for, have crappy parts to them. I know a few nurses who say they love the job, but they hate the paperwork. It's frustrating, repetitive and takes time from patient care. Likewise in the industry I studied in, the paperwork is insane. Pick any trade or occupation you can think of and I guarantee even people that love their job will say there are bits that are boring or frustrating.

    And in regard to some children not getting what they need from the main****** system. I agree with that, the system, public and private is not infallible. Teachers do try to cater to all different abilities in each subject area but of course it doesn't work for everyone. But having some experience with these types of kids, the answer isn't to remove them even more from main****** society. It's to attempt to better use what resources they have at their disposal and tweek it. These kids need more specialised and targeted assistance, not less, at home with well meaning but untrained parents who are well out of their depth. These kids already are on the fringe of 'normal'. Pushing them further out IMHO isn't the answer, it only seeks to alienate them more and put them further behind.
    Main****** schooling failed my husband. He can barely read, can't spell, and can't even sound out a word to try and read it. On the other side he is fantastic at fixing machinery and has great spatial awareness.

    If he wasn't forced to go to school he would have hung out at the farm all day making tractors. That's great - but you need some reading skills to get through life, even to be 'just a farmer'.

  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by amyd View Post
    Main****** schooling failed my husband. He can barely read, can't spell, and can't even sound out a word to try and read it. On the other side he is fantastic at fixing machinery and has great spatial awareness.

    If he wasn't forced to go to school he would have hung out at the farm all day making tractors. That's great - but you need some reading skills to get through life, even to be 'just a farmer'.
    That's sad What do you think would have helped him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    That's sad What do you think would have helped him?
    Teachers that listened and supported him. Not going to a primary school of 20 kids with one teacher. A mother who found a way to make homework interesting (apparently they didn't want to do it so she wasn't going to force them).

    He does have a certificate 4 but I feel a lot of that was assessed on potential - there was also a couple of great teachers that put in the effort to do oral exams with him.

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